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Subwoofer in the corner? Forget about it

Since installing new horn speakers, I have been learning a little about extracting their best performance. They require some effort and knowledge to get right - and the effort is the easy part.

Following "common wisdom", I placed the sub in the left corner, to the rear and outside of the left main speaker. The result was a disaster.

Boomy, one note bass, little tone and texture, very uneven response at different locations in the room, and no musical connection. This wasn't good enough for screening reruns of "Deuce Bigalow: Male Gigolo" on a HT set-up.

I repositioned the sub to the midpoint of the right-side wall. Now, it is a little forward and to the side of the right main speaker. Initial results are promising: Lower bass output (expected going from 3 corner boundaries to 2 wall/floor boundaries), coupled with musical LF, toneful and engaging. The difference between just moving alot of air and making proper musical bass is huge.

Here are two articles I found interesting:

http://www.harman.com/wp/pdf/multsubs.pdf
http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/setup/loudspeakers/SubwooferplacementP1.php

both use models and measurements to confirm my listening experience - corner loading the sub is loud and rough, compared with other locations. And multiple subs are smoother than a single sub. Now, I just have to bite the bullet and make room for another refrigerator sized horn sub in my listening room.

scott

Listening room: 15' x 18', suspended wood floor
Music used to evaluate sound:
Rachmaninoff, piano concerto 2
Astor Piazolla, Adios Ninos
Saint Saens, organ symphony 3
Rodrigo, concierto de Aranjuez
Doctor John, Duke elegant
Joe Pass, Portraits of duke Elington
skushino
warrenh's avatar
warrenh
2,299 posts
 
for two channel sound I keep my subs as close to the mains as possible. Yes, two is better than one; and bigger is uaully better. Listen to two 10" subs in a system play the second cut Use Me on her Champion cd. Keep that in your typanic memory box until you get to hear the piece with two 15 inchers. You tell me which does it for you. This is particulary satisfying when you have oodles of air to move. warren
skushino OP
91 posts
 
When I added a second sub (temporarily on loan from my neighbor) to the system, it was positioned in the right front corner, symetrically opposite my sub. This configuration was much smoother than the single sub, but still not good enough. Re-positioning my single sub to the sidewall midpoint is better yet. Still, there is room for improvement, and I'll borrow my neighbor's sub again to check out the pair against opposite sidewalls.

On the issue of needing multiple subs because of left channel / right channel information, I confirmed this is required. Using test tones and disabling the mains, the subwoofer is clearly audible up to 200 Hz! And this is with a 24dB/octave crossover, with crossover frequency around 60Hz. A natural way to side-step the stereo signals is centrally locating a single sub between the mains, with summed left and right channels. When Bruce Edgar demos his horns, he uses a single Seismic Sub on the front wall, foregoing the second sub. I can relate to this due to the size of the enclosure (refrigerator-sized).

I am finally getting a glimpse of "quality" bass, after moving the sub out of the corner. This is a goal worth pursuing. To me, great bass is not about SLAM or other audiofool stuff. Great bass provides a robust foundation which supports the music, provides ambient and spatial information about the size / dimensions of the venue, and believe it or not, manifests itself most clearly in a better midrange experience. Unfortunately, great bass is really hard to obtain without effort, knowledge, and probably some element of luck.

scott
rauliruegas
13,125 posts
 
Dear Scott: In my case I agree with you about subs on the corner.

But this subject depends on each room and other issues like: sub design ( reflex, sealed, etc ), crossover points, volume/gain, etc..

The integration of subs to any room is a long test of trial and error but is wortwhile to take that time to do it.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.
rauliruegas
13,125 posts
 
Dear Cmpromo: I think that the problem that you have with that single Rel subwoofer is that you were using like a bass reinforcement not like an integrated part of your speaker system and that you only use one unit instead of two.

Please read this subwoofer links, I think that can help us to understand the whole subwoofer concept and its heavy advantages:

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1117893153&openflup&27&4#27

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1117893153&openflup&31&4#31

Btw, Sgr: you can try with your Revel subs what is on those links. It could be interesting what you could have about.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.
ekovalsky
16 posts
 
Put your pair of subwoofers in the corners and add a DSP correction/crossover device, like the TacT RCS 2.2X or DEQX PDC-2.6. Result -- maximum SPL, optimal transient response, no room resonances resulting in "bass boom", perfect time/phase and amplitude integration with the mains, and a steep crossover keeping the upper bass and lower midrange in the main channels where they belong.

With such a DSP device the corners are the best place for the subs. Conversely without such equipment the corners are probably going to be the worst location.
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