B & W speaker upgrade suggestions

Hi Jkalman - I shouldn't have called AV123 the manufacturer - sorry, that was a bit misleading! They are indeed actually made in China, but Mark Schifter, the owner of AV123, is deeply involved in the design and marketing of the products - here is a quote from 6moons ( http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/onix/onix.html)that explains his part in the Onix products:

Enter Mark Schifter. Like Phil Jones of AAD and now Phil Jones Bass, he decided a long time ago that to do things properly equated to living on-site. With a house in China and another in Khabarovsk/Russia, Schifter has made the necessary sacrifices, learned the language and created the ideal infrastructure. He's not Sting's Englishman in New York but rather, Onix' American in China. He oversees procedures, installs safe guards and training and assures that Western-style quality control is successfully implemented. He partakes in the various design process stages from the very beginning and stays on the lookout for discoveries and opportunities. He also OEMs for other manufacturers and leverages his own brand against his growing scale of operations. The outcome of all of these actions are regular container loads of Onix/Rocket goods entering the US only to be unloaded consumer-direct via Mark's on-line store. Solid customer support and active user forums combine to make this approach friendly and non-threatening. More importantly, it becomes a grass-roots ground swell to draw music lovers into the folds who couldn't -- or wouldn't -- justify the usual HighEnd prices. As our own Jeff Day would put it, it's audio for audio everymen and women everywhere.

Holly

I haven't heard anything bad about them except what I said above: "Rolled off top-end", in reviews, and strange online marketing tactics. It is hard to tell because of the latter whether the enthusiasm seen in the past in fora like AVS is due to hidden salesmanship or happy customers, but when those people start harassing others, it becomes transparent. I did see a good review here and there online, but none in the well-known magazines (which I trust a little more). Then again, it is hard to look through back issues of magazines, while you can browse through previous months/years of online reviews.

I would compare them to other speakers in person by bringing them to a Cain & Cain and/or B&W dealer (or insert other choices here). I don't like my music rolled off at the top end personally, but some people think it is warmer that way.

Ultimately, speaker choice is about personal, subjective preference, which is why there is no substitute for direct listening comparisons through the same equipment. Since AV123 is so close to you, you shouldn't have a problem doing this before making a purchase. I think AV123 was sued by B&W awhile back for one of their designs which placed the tweeter outside the cabinet like one of the B&W lines? I thought I read something about their Swan line on Audioholics in one of those crazy threads with all the fighting.

I didn't bother auditioning any Direct Seller speakers because I would have had to order them then send them back if I didn't like them (I had looked at AV123, Axiom, Aperion). I also wanted to buy something that would have resale value for when I upgrade. Also, it didn't make much sense to me to buy $20k worth of HT components then buy speakers over the Internet that would not give me comparable pride of ownership. I admit, I am a peculiar, if not egotistical, fellow... As I'm sure my wife will admit.

Fair enough, Jkalman! I will be going to listen to some Cain & Cain speakers today. If I decide to try out the Onix Reference 3 speakers, they have a 30 day trial period. I can set them up in my house and hear how they sound with my equipment in my room, etc.. If I don't like them, I can take them back for a full refund.

I still intend to listen to some B&Ws at a local dealer, too. My mind is by no means made up - besides, I have plenty of time to continue researching and auditioning since it will take a while to save up the $$!

Holly

I went to Golden today to hear the Cain & Cain speakers. I was absolutely stunned by the sound and appearance of the Abby's, though I originally went there to audition the IM Ben model. I loved the transparency and accuracy of the Abby speakers; voices and instruments sounded absolutely natural. I have made a commitment to buy these speakers and can't wait to have them in my home!

Thanks to you all for your advice and opinions.

Holly

Cool looking speakers (just looked at their site). My wife might actually go for those in an area of the house that I don't control, like the bedroom. She just agreed, by not saying "no", that I could put some floorstanders in the bedroom in a year or two with an amplifier and my Wadia 302 as a preamp (when I upgrade from my Wadia 302 to something else - like a high-end separate transport and DAC). We need good stereo music in there... and Niles Gloria system in-ceiling/in-wall speakers just don't cut it for anything but busy party music listening.