Are first order crossovers best?

I started a thread on this a while back which turned into a sometimes heated and very informative discussion. I'm no computer whiz so I don't know how to locate the thread and provide you with the link. But I bet someone, perhaps yourself Blindjim, can locate it and I would recommend you do. I heard from everybody from Jeff Joseph of Joseph Audio (who uses very steep 4 order filters) to the guy from Green Mountain Audio (can't remember his name but a proponent of first order designs). Also, check out Richard Hardesty's "Audio Perfectionist". He adheres to the first order mantra. After much reading and reflection I came to the conclusion that you need to design the crossover to work with the drivers you have selected and the overall design. This is much more important than phase coherence. Can even the best drivers operate far outside their natural frequency response limits in a 6db slope design--I have my doubts. Should all drivers be shut down radically so they operate within a fairly narrow range of frequencies--I don't think so either. I am of the opinion that the dogmatic approach (i.e. must use first order, must use 4th order) doesn't make a lot of sense. Rather, the crossover should be tailored and tuned specifically to complement other aspects of the design (intended use, drivers, bass loading, etc.). Of course I'm no expert and you should read some of the literature out there for yourself to form an opinion.

Gmood1, you'r absolutely correct. The crossover is only 1 design aspect necessary to maintain correct phase in a multi-driver speaker. It is how ever a pre-requiste. My narrow answer was in response to Blindjim's question as to how it may effect cable selection. Mind you I'm a bit dubious about the very premise of cross-overs determining cable choices. As to whether they're best, well to me the best would be no cross-over. Unfortunately, that would usually would require compromises I'm not willing to accept. That said, I favor 1st order cross-over designs. I fully accept that other may have different priorites and that other options may better suit their desires.

Unsound, I agree with you wholeheartly my friend. I also favor 1st order crossovers or none at all. This cable thing has me scratching my head too.I've never heard of matching cables to a certain crossover design.

1st order is 6db, 2nd order 12db, 3rd order is 18db, correct?
A lot from what I gather here is the ability of the manufacturers to blend the drivers well. Some companies use steeper crossovers (18db will cut off the signal much more sharply than 6db) to prevent overlap.
So, no matter what slope is being used, a lot matters with the driver selection and boxes.
I wouldn't buy a speaker based on crossover design unless I was looking at NO crossover. However, a 4th order crossover is much harder to make and more expensive. So, you have to factor in the quality of components used if you look at 2 equally priced speakers with similar drivers-who is cutting corners to allow for crossover components?

I don't think many speaker designers would use the same drivers for a 1st order cross-over as they would for a 4th order cross-over. The very reason for using a 4th order would probably be to avoid that much over lap and to maximize particular drivers strengths. On paper a 1st order-cross over appears to be the simplest and cheapest. What not may be immeadeately obvious is that most manufacturers who choose 1st order crossovers go to great lengths to use first order cross overs towards a final goal. That goal being a time and phase coherence at the listening position. Thiel even goes further to present the amp with a steady load. These cross overs are far from simple. They compensate for driver irregularites, box resonances, etc. First order cross overs are only 1 step towards a final goal, these cross overs are tweaked along with many other designer considerations. The cabinets are time aligned which can add greatly to manufacturing costs. The drivers themsleves usually need to be capable of greater range. To suggest that first order cross-overs are a cost cutting decision is short sighted. Unless one is designing their own speaker, judging by isolated compenents to determine the value of a speaker is fraught with problems.