Lou,
Thanks for your replies to my questions. Best of luck with your venture!
Duke
Thanks for your replies to my questions. Best of luck with your venture!
Duke
Daedalus DA-1: How Good Are They?
This is a follow up to my preliminary review of the DA-1’s posted on the Audiogon several months ago. In that review I praised these speakers highly but had concerns about the muddled bass response that prevented me from making a purchase without further audition in a different space.
I was led to the DA-1’s after a two year search for a pair of attractive floor standing speakers to replace my Harbeth Compact 7’s. When I started out I thought this would be an easy task. With roughly 8K to spend I figured it would be relatively easy to find something that sounded at least as good as the Harbeth’s but with more bass in an attractive package. This most certainly was not the case, partly because the Harbeth’s are truly excellent speakers and a tremendous value. I would recommend them to anyone with a moderate sized room and budget for partnering equipment. Over the past two years I heard nearly everything I could, traveling considerable distances for auditions in private homes, high end audio shops and shows. It was a very educational, and at times, frustrating experience. Most of what I heard failed to pass my “initial impression” test--that overwhelming sense of “rightness” and “musicality” that grabs you and pulls you into the music--the sensation that what you are hearing sounds like real, live musicians playing in the room. This immediate impression is, I believe, very important. In my opinion, if a music system fails to deliver on this count you can pretty much bet that it won’t be satisfying over the long haul. Of course, a longer audition is essential to uncover the nuances of any hi-fi system, but in my experience, if the system doesn’t sound “right” from the get go it will probably falter under more lengthy scrutiny rather than improve.
Despite the terrible room acoustics during my initial audition of the DA-1’s, there was something about the sound--a bit of that “rightness” factor--that wouldn’t allow me to cross this speaker off my ever shrinking list. I really felt they had a lot of potential and, knowing the devastating effects a bad room can have on a sound system, I wanted to give them another try. On the eve of setting up a home audition of the DA-1, I made contact with an owner of a pair who was moving and needed to sell--and the price was more than fair. So without the benefit of another audition, I took the plunge. I’m I pretty conservative guy and take few risks as a general rule. However, sometimes taking a chance can be a good thing--in this case, I am happy to report, it most certainly was.
When I got them home I set the DA-1’s up exactly where the Harbeth’s sat on the short wall of my 14 W X 22 L X 9 H room--about two feet from the wall behind them and three and a half feet from the side wall (the other side opens to an 11 X 11 dining room). I haven’t moved them since, except to adjust the toe in slightly. I may play around with them some day to see what moving them forward or back will do but I can’t imagine them sounding any better than they do right now. The DA-1’s are, as they sit, one of the best loudspeaker systems I have ever heard. For the money, I have not heard anything that comes even close to their performance. In fact, based on my experience over the past two years, I think you would have to spend at least $15K to do appreciably better.
The DA-1’s are, in a word, MUSICAL. I have not heard another speaker, regardless of price, that captures the essence of a performance the way the Daedalus do. They are one of the few speakers I’ve heard that just get out of the way and envelope you in all the passion, warmth, beauty and verve of live music. I can’t emphasize this enough--most of the systems I heard over the past two years sounded like hi-fi. With the DA-1’s in my system, I don’t hear gear--I hear music.
Tonally the DA-1’s capture the unique qualities of every instrument, acoustic or amplified. I spent the better part of two days after getting them set up listening exclusively to classical and chamber music. I couldn’t stop because I wanted to hear how each recording would be portrayed by the DA-1’s. Solo piano has all the body, warmth, wood tone and depth of the instrument heard in live performance. With chamber ensembles the interplay between the musicians is passionately revealed--each member of a string quartet’s voice is distinct and yet part of a rich and complex musical fabric. The cello, in particular, has the weight and woody resonance that was so often lacking in many of the systems I auditioned--it simply sounds real and “right there” in the room. Not fat, bloated or indistinct but warm, rich and tonally correct. Oboes sound like oboes, bassons like bassons. I could go on and on. I then moved to Keith Jarret’s “Standards” albums. Once again, what struck me was the way in which I could hear the improvisational process unfold, as if they were making it up right in front of me--as it is when you catch the best of live performances. The individual notes start and stop exactly as they should. Listening to the acoustic bass, there is no blurring or overhang to spoil the illusion of live sound. When I shifted to solo guitar (Alex DeGrassi on Windham Hill) his instrument sounded brilliant but not biting, with natural sounding reinforcement of the bass line provided by the low E string when struck.
I think a good part of what makes the “Daedalus sound” so compelling is the crossover. It is entirely seamless, creating an absolutely coherent sound field. Lou Hinckley, who designs and builds these speakers, won’t discuss the crossover design, nor will he specify the make of the drivers (other than to say that the bass and midrange drivers are “proprietary designs” made to his specs here in the USA and that the twin tweeters are Vifa’s). I don’t know what kind of magic he is doing here, but the careful blending of the drivers in this 3.5 way design probably accounts for much of what I am describing in this review. The crossover doesn’t appear smear the timing of events or ask the drivers to operate outside their natural limits. I’m no expert here--all I know is that I do not hear the seams like I did when I auditioned, say, the Sonus Faber Cremonas. The DA-1's sound like a well executed two-way (like my Harbeth’s) rather than a large, multi way speaker.
My initial impressions of the bass of the DA-1’s (see my preliminary review posted on the Audiogon) were wholly unwarranted. In my room the bass is warm, rich, full, yet tight and tuneful. The full foundation of the music is present and pitch perfect. String bass (again, from “Standards”) is spot on. Electric bass (Lee Sklar playing on James Taylor “JT”) is so well rendered that I have a new appreciation for this extraordinary studio artist. With the exception of the Vandersteen 5A (properly tuned, ideally positioned and paired with top notch components), I have never heard bass as authoritative, pitch accurate and fully integrated with the rest of the musical spectrum. It doesn’t stand out, it supports and enhances what ever else is going on. I think one reason the bass response is so good is because Lou doesn’t try for too much in the way of extension. The DA-1’s begin to drop off around 30hz (though room reinforcement from the rear port arrangement may yield lower output in some settings). Some speakers, like the Proac D25’s I had in my system for several weeks, claim an output of 20hz and can’t really deliver quality bass as a result. No matter where I placed the Proac’s the bass never sounded as tuneful and rhythmically correct as I wanted. The Proac’s, in my view, do not do the PRaT thing as well as they should for the money. There are tradeoffs that must be made in all speaker designs and I don’t think you can get 20hz from a 6.5” woofer and still have it play the bass line correctly. The Daedalus sport two 8” drivers, the bottom one cutting off at a lower frequency, and “only” try for 30hz. To me, I’d rather give up the last half octave for real pitch definition--and it seems the folks at Daedalus would agree. The DA-1’s offer bass that is as deep as most recordings require, but more importantly, reproduce powerful and tuneful bass that supports and sustains the music. In fact, the DA-1’s may be the ideal marriage between classic American style power and British sensibilities regarding pace, rhythm and timing.
The treble performance of the DA-1’s is excellent as well. Not as airy and extended as several of the best speaker systems (i.e. ribbons) I heard, but articulate (without going nasty) and well integrated. The DA-1’s have a switch that allows the user to attenuate the treble by + or - 2db. I have the switch set at “flat”, finding this provides the most ideal degree of sparkle and air in my room. In another room with different associated equipment, you may have different results. Ultimately, it’s nice to be able to contour the sound to individual tastes. The treble performance of the DA-1’s is something that grows on you a bit over time. While some speakers, like the Theil CS6 I auditioned, tend to provide a splashy top end that initially impresses in a brief demonstration, the high frequency performance of the DA-1’s does not draw attention to itself, blending seamlessly with the rest of the spectrum and, I tend to think, will wear better over time.
The DA-1’s had some stiff competition in the midrange area coming in to replace my Harbeth’s. The Harbeth Radial driver is considered by many (including myself) to be the best (as in least colored) there is. So how does the Daedalus stack up? Very well indeed. Compared to the Harbeth’s the midrange lacks that last bit of electrostatic purity that I adore but it is very close indeed. The DA-1’s are slightly more revealing through the midrange and do not have the tendency to cover recording aberrations quite as much as the Harbeth’s, which literally cannot sound “bad” no matter what you throw at them. The slight dip in the upper midrange designed into the Harbeth’s tends to take the edge off bad recordings. The DA-1’s sound flatter across this part of the spectrum and therefore tend not to mask poor recordings (and, I’m assuming associated electronics) as well as the Harbeth’s. Of course, the DA-1’s also do not homogenize the sound like the Harbeth’s. You can hear differences between recordings, venues and mikes more easily with the DA-1’s. They are, I think, more accurate to the recording and therefore ever so slightly less kind with bad material. This is not to say that the DA-1’s sound hard or analytical. The presence region is warm and realistic in the way few speakers are--again, the “rightness” factor--which relies mostly on getting the midrange “right”. What I hear is a nice tradeoff between delivering the detail and providing a relaxed presentation that will serve most of the music in your collection very, very well.
Much has been made in the few other reviews of this speaker about it’s dynamic capabilities, and for good reason. At 96db sensitivity, the DA-1’s have a natural ease that is superior to most other designs. They are fast (lightning quick) without being tipped up or hard sounding. Others have said that what distinguishes the DA-1’s is that they sound like live music. Again, I couldn’t agree more--but not because they rock like crazy (which they do, without a hint of strain) but for me because of everything I’ve stated above. They sound like live music because everything sounds REAL. Perhaps this is why it took some folks so long to “get used to” the sound of the DA-1’s. Not me--I go to live shows and performances all the time. What I have a hard time getting “used to” are loudspeakers that don’t sound like real instruments (for whatever reason). Getting “used to” the DA-1’s took about 15 seconds. One other point made in several of the reviews is that the DA-1’s are great for off-axis listening. Again, I wholeheartedly agree. With dual tweeters (one slightly offset) the sound is expansive. Frequency response and image placement do not shift when you move around the room or stand up. The “sweet spot” is very broad, which makes this a speaker more people can enjoy. As for imaging, the DA-1’s give up a little in the way of image specificity for greater off-axis listening enjoyment. Voices and instruments occupy real, palpable three dimensional space, but are not as etched as, say, the Theil CS6. Also, the soundfield typically does not extend beyond the outside edges of the speakers, nor is it as deep as I’ve heard with some models. This really doesn’t bother me at all, though I can see how some may want more localization of the performers, if that is your thing.
So, what’s not to love about the DA-1’s? Obviously not much. I wish the treble had just a wee bit more air and extension like some of the best speakers I’ve heard. I might get that by notching up the tweeter a click but this creates a slightly more forward presentation than I would like. The midrange, while totally believable and gloriously detailed, could be slightly more emphasized and present in the room. A tiny bit more richness would be welcome. With bad recordings there is a very slight hardness at louder volumes that my Harbeth’s did not reveal. Again, here I’m comparing with speakers that are simply unmatched in this area. The packing is also not the best, although I understand Lou is working on a new shipping system that utilizes full edge protection of 2" closed cell foam, plywood and extremely heavy cardboard containers. Speaking of size, I wouldn’t recommend anyone use these speakers in a room smaller than mine. They generate tremendous bass energy that might overwhelm a smaller space. That is really all I can muster in the way of complaints.
In closing, though it has taken nearly two years, I’ve finally found a speaker that I know I can live with for the long haul. The Daedalus DA-1’s are dollar for dollar the best speaker I have ever heard and one of the very best regardless of price. They do not appear to be fussy about placement and can be driven easily with different types of electronics. They are utterly engaging and unfailingly musical and provide truly full range, dynamic sound. And they look fantastic to boot--constructed from solid hardwood with dovetail joinery and a hand rubbed finish that will compliment any decor. When I bought my Harbeth’s about six years ago nobody outside the “Brit” wing of the audiophile community knew anything about them. But as soon as I heard them I knew that they were destined to be classics and bought them without a second thought. Today, after rave reviews in all the mainstream American hi-end press, Harbeth is nearly a household name. So too, I think, will be the case with Daedalus. The DA-1’s above all speak with a consistently musical voice, and in the end isn’t that what we would all like from our hi-fi systems?
Associated Equipment
VPI Scout/JMW9/Dynavector 20XH
Audio Research SP16
Audio Research 100.2
Rotel RCD 971
Audience Au-24 and Powercords
I was led to the DA-1’s after a two year search for a pair of attractive floor standing speakers to replace my Harbeth Compact 7’s. When I started out I thought this would be an easy task. With roughly 8K to spend I figured it would be relatively easy to find something that sounded at least as good as the Harbeth’s but with more bass in an attractive package. This most certainly was not the case, partly because the Harbeth’s are truly excellent speakers and a tremendous value. I would recommend them to anyone with a moderate sized room and budget for partnering equipment. Over the past two years I heard nearly everything I could, traveling considerable distances for auditions in private homes, high end audio shops and shows. It was a very educational, and at times, frustrating experience. Most of what I heard failed to pass my “initial impression” test--that overwhelming sense of “rightness” and “musicality” that grabs you and pulls you into the music--the sensation that what you are hearing sounds like real, live musicians playing in the room. This immediate impression is, I believe, very important. In my opinion, if a music system fails to deliver on this count you can pretty much bet that it won’t be satisfying over the long haul. Of course, a longer audition is essential to uncover the nuances of any hi-fi system, but in my experience, if the system doesn’t sound “right” from the get go it will probably falter under more lengthy scrutiny rather than improve.
Despite the terrible room acoustics during my initial audition of the DA-1’s, there was something about the sound--a bit of that “rightness” factor--that wouldn’t allow me to cross this speaker off my ever shrinking list. I really felt they had a lot of potential and, knowing the devastating effects a bad room can have on a sound system, I wanted to give them another try. On the eve of setting up a home audition of the DA-1, I made contact with an owner of a pair who was moving and needed to sell--and the price was more than fair. So without the benefit of another audition, I took the plunge. I’m I pretty conservative guy and take few risks as a general rule. However, sometimes taking a chance can be a good thing--in this case, I am happy to report, it most certainly was.
When I got them home I set the DA-1’s up exactly where the Harbeth’s sat on the short wall of my 14 W X 22 L X 9 H room--about two feet from the wall behind them and three and a half feet from the side wall (the other side opens to an 11 X 11 dining room). I haven’t moved them since, except to adjust the toe in slightly. I may play around with them some day to see what moving them forward or back will do but I can’t imagine them sounding any better than they do right now. The DA-1’s are, as they sit, one of the best loudspeaker systems I have ever heard. For the money, I have not heard anything that comes even close to their performance. In fact, based on my experience over the past two years, I think you would have to spend at least $15K to do appreciably better.
The DA-1’s are, in a word, MUSICAL. I have not heard another speaker, regardless of price, that captures the essence of a performance the way the Daedalus do. They are one of the few speakers I’ve heard that just get out of the way and envelope you in all the passion, warmth, beauty and verve of live music. I can’t emphasize this enough--most of the systems I heard over the past two years sounded like hi-fi. With the DA-1’s in my system, I don’t hear gear--I hear music.
Tonally the DA-1’s capture the unique qualities of every instrument, acoustic or amplified. I spent the better part of two days after getting them set up listening exclusively to classical and chamber music. I couldn’t stop because I wanted to hear how each recording would be portrayed by the DA-1’s. Solo piano has all the body, warmth, wood tone and depth of the instrument heard in live performance. With chamber ensembles the interplay between the musicians is passionately revealed--each member of a string quartet’s voice is distinct and yet part of a rich and complex musical fabric. The cello, in particular, has the weight and woody resonance that was so often lacking in many of the systems I auditioned--it simply sounds real and “right there” in the room. Not fat, bloated or indistinct but warm, rich and tonally correct. Oboes sound like oboes, bassons like bassons. I could go on and on. I then moved to Keith Jarret’s “Standards” albums. Once again, what struck me was the way in which I could hear the improvisational process unfold, as if they were making it up right in front of me--as it is when you catch the best of live performances. The individual notes start and stop exactly as they should. Listening to the acoustic bass, there is no blurring or overhang to spoil the illusion of live sound. When I shifted to solo guitar (Alex DeGrassi on Windham Hill) his instrument sounded brilliant but not biting, with natural sounding reinforcement of the bass line provided by the low E string when struck.
I think a good part of what makes the “Daedalus sound” so compelling is the crossover. It is entirely seamless, creating an absolutely coherent sound field. Lou Hinckley, who designs and builds these speakers, won’t discuss the crossover design, nor will he specify the make of the drivers (other than to say that the bass and midrange drivers are “proprietary designs” made to his specs here in the USA and that the twin tweeters are Vifa’s). I don’t know what kind of magic he is doing here, but the careful blending of the drivers in this 3.5 way design probably accounts for much of what I am describing in this review. The crossover doesn’t appear smear the timing of events or ask the drivers to operate outside their natural limits. I’m no expert here--all I know is that I do not hear the seams like I did when I auditioned, say, the Sonus Faber Cremonas. The DA-1's sound like a well executed two-way (like my Harbeth’s) rather than a large, multi way speaker.
My initial impressions of the bass of the DA-1’s (see my preliminary review posted on the Audiogon) were wholly unwarranted. In my room the bass is warm, rich, full, yet tight and tuneful. The full foundation of the music is present and pitch perfect. String bass (again, from “Standards”) is spot on. Electric bass (Lee Sklar playing on James Taylor “JT”) is so well rendered that I have a new appreciation for this extraordinary studio artist. With the exception of the Vandersteen 5A (properly tuned, ideally positioned and paired with top notch components), I have never heard bass as authoritative, pitch accurate and fully integrated with the rest of the musical spectrum. It doesn’t stand out, it supports and enhances what ever else is going on. I think one reason the bass response is so good is because Lou doesn’t try for too much in the way of extension. The DA-1’s begin to drop off around 30hz (though room reinforcement from the rear port arrangement may yield lower output in some settings). Some speakers, like the Proac D25’s I had in my system for several weeks, claim an output of 20hz and can’t really deliver quality bass as a result. No matter where I placed the Proac’s the bass never sounded as tuneful and rhythmically correct as I wanted. The Proac’s, in my view, do not do the PRaT thing as well as they should for the money. There are tradeoffs that must be made in all speaker designs and I don’t think you can get 20hz from a 6.5” woofer and still have it play the bass line correctly. The Daedalus sport two 8” drivers, the bottom one cutting off at a lower frequency, and “only” try for 30hz. To me, I’d rather give up the last half octave for real pitch definition--and it seems the folks at Daedalus would agree. The DA-1’s offer bass that is as deep as most recordings require, but more importantly, reproduce powerful and tuneful bass that supports and sustains the music. In fact, the DA-1’s may be the ideal marriage between classic American style power and British sensibilities regarding pace, rhythm and timing.
The treble performance of the DA-1’s is excellent as well. Not as airy and extended as several of the best speaker systems (i.e. ribbons) I heard, but articulate (without going nasty) and well integrated. The DA-1’s have a switch that allows the user to attenuate the treble by + or - 2db. I have the switch set at “flat”, finding this provides the most ideal degree of sparkle and air in my room. In another room with different associated equipment, you may have different results. Ultimately, it’s nice to be able to contour the sound to individual tastes. The treble performance of the DA-1’s is something that grows on you a bit over time. While some speakers, like the Theil CS6 I auditioned, tend to provide a splashy top end that initially impresses in a brief demonstration, the high frequency performance of the DA-1’s does not draw attention to itself, blending seamlessly with the rest of the spectrum and, I tend to think, will wear better over time.
The DA-1’s had some stiff competition in the midrange area coming in to replace my Harbeth’s. The Harbeth Radial driver is considered by many (including myself) to be the best (as in least colored) there is. So how does the Daedalus stack up? Very well indeed. Compared to the Harbeth’s the midrange lacks that last bit of electrostatic purity that I adore but it is very close indeed. The DA-1’s are slightly more revealing through the midrange and do not have the tendency to cover recording aberrations quite as much as the Harbeth’s, which literally cannot sound “bad” no matter what you throw at them. The slight dip in the upper midrange designed into the Harbeth’s tends to take the edge off bad recordings. The DA-1’s sound flatter across this part of the spectrum and therefore tend not to mask poor recordings (and, I’m assuming associated electronics) as well as the Harbeth’s. Of course, the DA-1’s also do not homogenize the sound like the Harbeth’s. You can hear differences between recordings, venues and mikes more easily with the DA-1’s. They are, I think, more accurate to the recording and therefore ever so slightly less kind with bad material. This is not to say that the DA-1’s sound hard or analytical. The presence region is warm and realistic in the way few speakers are--again, the “rightness” factor--which relies mostly on getting the midrange “right”. What I hear is a nice tradeoff between delivering the detail and providing a relaxed presentation that will serve most of the music in your collection very, very well.
Much has been made in the few other reviews of this speaker about it’s dynamic capabilities, and for good reason. At 96db sensitivity, the DA-1’s have a natural ease that is superior to most other designs. They are fast (lightning quick) without being tipped up or hard sounding. Others have said that what distinguishes the DA-1’s is that they sound like live music. Again, I couldn’t agree more--but not because they rock like crazy (which they do, without a hint of strain) but for me because of everything I’ve stated above. They sound like live music because everything sounds REAL. Perhaps this is why it took some folks so long to “get used to” the sound of the DA-1’s. Not me--I go to live shows and performances all the time. What I have a hard time getting “used to” are loudspeakers that don’t sound like real instruments (for whatever reason). Getting “used to” the DA-1’s took about 15 seconds. One other point made in several of the reviews is that the DA-1’s are great for off-axis listening. Again, I wholeheartedly agree. With dual tweeters (one slightly offset) the sound is expansive. Frequency response and image placement do not shift when you move around the room or stand up. The “sweet spot” is very broad, which makes this a speaker more people can enjoy. As for imaging, the DA-1’s give up a little in the way of image specificity for greater off-axis listening enjoyment. Voices and instruments occupy real, palpable three dimensional space, but are not as etched as, say, the Theil CS6. Also, the soundfield typically does not extend beyond the outside edges of the speakers, nor is it as deep as I’ve heard with some models. This really doesn’t bother me at all, though I can see how some may want more localization of the performers, if that is your thing.
So, what’s not to love about the DA-1’s? Obviously not much. I wish the treble had just a wee bit more air and extension like some of the best speakers I’ve heard. I might get that by notching up the tweeter a click but this creates a slightly more forward presentation than I would like. The midrange, while totally believable and gloriously detailed, could be slightly more emphasized and present in the room. A tiny bit more richness would be welcome. With bad recordings there is a very slight hardness at louder volumes that my Harbeth’s did not reveal. Again, here I’m comparing with speakers that are simply unmatched in this area. The packing is also not the best, although I understand Lou is working on a new shipping system that utilizes full edge protection of 2" closed cell foam, plywood and extremely heavy cardboard containers. Speaking of size, I wouldn’t recommend anyone use these speakers in a room smaller than mine. They generate tremendous bass energy that might overwhelm a smaller space. That is really all I can muster in the way of complaints.
In closing, though it has taken nearly two years, I’ve finally found a speaker that I know I can live with for the long haul. The Daedalus DA-1’s are dollar for dollar the best speaker I have ever heard and one of the very best regardless of price. They do not appear to be fussy about placement and can be driven easily with different types of electronics. They are utterly engaging and unfailingly musical and provide truly full range, dynamic sound. And they look fantastic to boot--constructed from solid hardwood with dovetail joinery and a hand rubbed finish that will compliment any decor. When I bought my Harbeth’s about six years ago nobody outside the “Brit” wing of the audiophile community knew anything about them. But as soon as I heard them I knew that they were destined to be classics and bought them without a second thought. Today, after rave reviews in all the mainstream American hi-end press, Harbeth is nearly a household name. So too, I think, will be the case with Daedalus. The DA-1’s above all speak with a consistently musical voice, and in the end isn’t that what we would all like from our hi-fi systems?
Associated Equipment
VPI Scout/JMW9/Dynavector 20XH
Audio Research SP16
Audio Research 100.2
Rotel RCD 971
Audience Au-24 and Powercords
- ...
- 56 posts total
- 56 posts total