Thiels or Von Schweikerts

Zaikesman good advice; Rustler good move. Back to the original question. I believe, as a rule, VS speakers will be warm and pleasing, with a tendancy towards blandness. Thiels will be detailed and exciting, with a tendency towards edginess. But a given amplifier can render one of these tendancies moot. Every amplifier will complement the speakers' qualities differently, so for a given amp NOBODY can predict which speaker will sound better without actually hearing the combination personally. Both manufacturers make speakers that are capable of fulfulling any audiophile's dreams, and many fine amplifiers can make either speaker sound terrible. If you cannot audition the speakers and amplifiers together, then its a crap shoot. You'll probably have to end up changing something again later. These are my personal experiences, specifically with both the Thiel CS3.6 and VS VR-4JR. Let me say it this way: you cannot choose a great speaker and a great amp and expect them to sound great together.

FYI-I've been using an PS Audio HCA2 amp w/ my Thiel 3.6s for almost three years- a match made in heaven, in my book. The sound is everything I've been looking for for 35 years. So - you don't need to spend a fortune on an amp- just get the right one- Thiels are very demanding.

Rustler, I might be completely wrong here, but I dont think I would risk my investment in either the Manley or the Cary int. amps in hope they would drive the Thiels to what they are capable of. I think if you do hear and decide on the Thiels you would be better off with a used mid to high power SS amp in the same price range you had set for either of the tube amps you mentioned.

Tom: We don't know if that applies as a blanket statement. Say Rustler's room is on the smaller side, he listens mostly to small-group acoustic music, and he gets a pair of 1.6 -- in that case a nice tube integrated may be all he would ever want or need. But if his room is bigger, he listens mostly to rock or symphonic music, and he gets the 2.4, then yes, making the investment in that same amp might not be the route to go. Rustler, please let us know about your room and tastes, and also what is your amplifier now...

I have to clarify that the 3 systems I heard using Thiels that I really enjoyed were all using Krell KAV series amps and there HT pre-pros. I did hear a set-up recently using Thiel 1.6 and a Krell integrated that sounded really good in a friends home. I also heard a set of Thiel 3.6 with Krell Class A amp (older model I can't recal) Mark Levinson pre-amp and Meridian CD player which did nothing for me, sounded rather flat and lifeless which I never expected.

I have owned Krell KAV amps in the past and did try them with my Thiels. They did have a very good synergy but I would get listener fatigue after only about an hour.

When I auditioned the Thiels I also used my Jazz CD's and favorite female vocalists but what I should have done is brought over a wider variety.

I like the Thiel sound but I cannot live with it for a long period of time. It the same reason I don't own a cat as they are both too damn finicky and I just want to enjoy the music and movies.

I still think Thiel makes a quality speaker but make sure you realize they really are high maintenance and don't like to be fed anything other than the best sound quality CD's and the like. I still maintain that the VS speakers are WAY more forgiving and when you really give them quality they reward you in spades.

I have to admit that I would jump on a deal for some Thiel Powerpoints for the living room HT. At $1,300 each though it better be a real gooooodddddddd deal. They are the best in-wall/on-wall speakers I have heard which is not saying they sound nearly as good as floorstanders but a much cleaner living room.

Good luck Rustler, just remember to bring all of your music with you when trying out either speaker, not just the best recordings.