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Need help generating a short list

Greetings,

Well, I'm parting with my original VR-4's, which have served me well for many years. In some ways, I wonder if I'm making a mistake selling them, as they're still a wonderful loudspeaker even by today's standards.

At this point, I'd like to consider a more "lively" loudspeaker. The VR-4's are very "warm" sounding, and easy to listen to. The downside to this presentation is a lack of dynamics and impact. Bass extension is not an issue with the VR-4's, but the slam of a kick drum, the pluck of a bass, or the crack of a rim shot just isn't there. Having played the drums for many years, I yearn for a system that can recreate the dynamic impact of a drum kit!

I've tried many speaker technologies over the years; Horn (Altec 19's), Planar (Maggie's), Electrostatic (Martin Logans), and Conventional (Legacy Convergence, Thiel 2 2, Thiel 3.6, VR-4, others), and for some reason, have always come back to conventional designs. Of all the speakers I've owned, the Altec 19's were the most visceral, but they lacked detail and imaged poorly. The live event was there, but it was all mixed together. The most dynamic conventional speaker I've owned was the Legacy Convergence (similar to the Focus), but the presentation was too "hi-fi," and very fatiguing.

I realize it would be impossible to find a loudspeaker with the dynamics of a horn, midrange of a planar or electrostatic, and top to bottom detail of a superior conventional design, but I would imagine some speakers come close. I'm not talking $50K+ speakers, but speakers in the $5K range.

I've seen many a reference to the Aerial 10T and Talon Khorus as being very dynamic, yet detailed and extended, but what other speakers might be considered, particularly current models? I have a very large room, and need a speaker than can play loudly without compression. I realize horns are ideal, but I cannot afford the entry price for even a mediocre horn system.

With hundreds of manufacturers out there, I'm trying to develop a short list so I can limit my search/research. We don't have many "high-end" shops in my neck of the woods (Tampa Bay area), so it's likely I'll have to seek some of the products out during my business travel. Any help would be most appreciated.

By the way, I am intrigued by the "Waveguide" technology, that seems to offer the benefits of a conventional design, with some of the properties of a horn. I've been away from this hobby for 12+ years, so I'm very wet behind the ears. To my chagrin, there are still no shortage of companies trying to stack drivers in a tower configuration (ala Legacy), but it's certainly possible that this configuration has improved over the years.

Any help would be most appreciated!
seadweller
shadorne's avatar
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shadorne
7,477 posts
 
Specifically, I'm interested in getting away from the typical, conventional designs

Driver design has not changed or improved that much since the 70's, IMHO. Competition and price pressure has continued to increase (after all, pretty much anybody can make a speaker using third party drivers). Many of these old designs you referred to, were and still are extremely good.

When you mean "conventional", do you meaning the currently popular slender small driver speaker designs, even as floorstanders (popular since roughly the mid 80's) ?
kwtoxman
25 posts
 
Since the sound quality of your system is going to be dependent on more than just the speakers, could you list the rest of your system?

I found in my system that my speakers really woke up when I put a decent tube preamp into it. Although all other components were also upgraded to higher end spec earlier.

I'd recommend you listen to some Energy Veritas 2.4i's. They are noted for much of the qualities you are speaking about and are looking for. And they appear to be built to a similar philosophy as VS speakers. Soundstage has a review on their website of the 2.4i's. Their description includes "Bold, exciting sound" -- "visceral punch and abundant musical energy".

It shouldn't be too hard to find a place to audition them. But try to take them home, because that is where the rubber meets the road.

I would pay great attention to the gear that the 2.4i's are associated with when you audition them. The 2.4i's I had never really impressed me until I had the other components up to spec as well. Then the sound blew me away. I will characterize this by saying that the 2.4i's can be underwhelming with poor system synergy / component matching.

The 2.4i's finally in my system show some amazing traits. As you mentioned earlier, in good recordings the pluck of a bass, the shimmer of a cymbal, the pluck of a pick guitar, maracas, etc. demonstrate an eery realism. The 2.4i's show excellent and uncanny imaging, a very large soundstage, great dynamics, smooth sound, excellent midrange, great musicality, amazing detail, and excellent PRAT.

To note, the 2.4i's have great bass and fairly low, but not as low as the (new) VR4's.

I have listened to some nice Tannoy's. D700's in a good system. They sounded great, with more bass than my speakers, but I found the soundstage and high frequency response of that system couldn't match mine with the 2.4i's. Smaller soundstage, and just not as much shimmer, openness, airiness in the highs. It was interesting to hear the difference. I preferred the Veritas. My friend with the Tannoy's owned Klipsch as well and preferred the Tannoy's.

Finally, I also find any system I've listened to is dependent on the quality of the recording, including mine. Some recordings just don't have the dynamics to be as impressive as others. Maybe that is part of it.

2.4i review.... http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/energy_veritas_v24i.htm

Good luck.

kw.....
tobias
1,534 posts
 
Well I don't know if they'll recreate the dynamic impact of a drum kit but Triangle make some very lively, quick-sounding speakers and your price would cover a model with a fair bit of woofer area. They're efficient, too, so you get more headroom per watt--not as much as you get with Klipschorns at over 100dB, though. More like 90-91 dB.

I like the Loth-X Polaris horns too, but they are over your budget new and very hard to find used. Quick, though, and as efficient as the Klipsches.
seadweller OP
55 posts
 
Thanks everyone......My system consists of a Sonic Frontiers SFL-1 pre-amp, Parasound Halo A-21 amplifier, and Rotel RCD-965BX cd player......

I'm very tempted to consider horns, as I still like the design concept and lively presentation, but I'm afraid I'll miss some of the qualities of a good dynamic design. I'm really seeking a sound that's fast, percussive, dynamic and powerful, with good top to bottom extension, and no loss of character at high volumes. I've just heard so many conventional, dynamic systems that were "warm" and uninvolving.
kwtoxman
25 posts
 
Upgrading the preamp is an option.

As for horns you could consider the Tannoy TD10's. They are a newer version of the D700's I listened to. Audiogon has a set for sale. And there are a few reviews on the net. Interestingly Soundstage had great things to say about them using a SF line 2 preamp.

kw.....
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