Focal -JM Lab Nova Utopia Be VS. B&W 801D

Audiooracle very much knows what he is talking about with this speaker -- I heed his word and wonder whether he has anything more to add about the characteristics of Focal's Be tweeters as used in the Utopia Be line. Are they, like Focal's tioxid tweeter used in the first Utopia line (and used, I believe, in modified form by Wilson), inherently hot? I was with Cincy_Bob when we heard the Novas at Singer. I did not find the treble remarkable one way or the other, but I have a bit of hearing damage in one ear that "rolls off" treble a bit for me. We were very much hoping to hear the speakers run with the Burmester amp in that big room, but something prevented it -- I can't recall what. So I would add that the spectacular bass definition I heard was yielded by, of all things, an 845-based single ended amp (albeit a very, very good one). I admit that my exposure to the speaker was limited to that two-hour session, but I heard them long enough to get a feel.

Sir Speedy: I agree with virtually everything you wrote. And you are to be commended on your spectacular speakers -- weren't the Ascents designed when Charlie Hanson was still part of Avalon?

The results you get have a lot to do with the particular setup of the system.

I worked for close to 16 years at SBS. I sold and set up the JM Labs many times. The results you could get out of them had a lot to do with what you were running them with.

I was the detail setup freak so when I demoed the speakers for my customers I made sure they heard the systems set up the best way possible, on many an occassion the setups were not optimal and the system didn't sound great.

The BE versions of the JM Labs do a lot of things well. The BE tweeter is way smoother than the earlier non be series, also the midrange was more integrated and coherent.

I will agree with Sir speedy that the JM Labs bass is loose.

JM tunes for a big presentation and a tighter more accurate bass is well less French. The problem with the JM Labs is that the baffles are too big and they present a big but not super well focused soundstage.

I will agree that a REL or any other really good subwoofer will dramatically improve a speaker system. Even the big Wilson's at SBS improved dramatically with a good sub.

I have on display in my showrooms the new JL Audio Fathoms and they improve all the speakers I play them with.

It all comes down to taste. There are ported speakers with great bass, speed and slam and sealed ones which trade bass depth with volume.

>>I have on display in my showrooms the new JL Audio Fathoms and they improve all the speakers I play them with.<<

Never ever ever miss a chance to sell something do you?

Tight bass is not French? That sure is a first! Perhaps compared to Avalons but I wouldn't generalize. After hearing Mulidine, Apertura, Triangle, Mosquito, Vulcain, and PE Leon speakers, I can tell you French speakers have tight bass overall.

If you expect a 13 inch woofer to sound tight, then it might be your expectations that are loose! lol. They make other models too you know, like the Diva with twin 8 inchers and a very slim baffle to favor focused imaging.

Choosing the right speaker isn't a one-size-has-to-fit-all approach. You first have to determine what style of sound you like, what room you have, and then choose the speaker accordingly. If you want focus above all else, the Nova would be the wrong choice in the first place. Simple as that. Otherwise, Focal would only make 1 Utopia model instead of 7 different ones.

Arthur

I never stated the Nova's had "loose" bass!I said I felt they were "not accurate".Many speakers sound just fine,but in reality are not accurate in bass response.People like overemphasis in this area.I do too,but have really toned down my set-up over the years for a more accurate presentation.I have heard the BIG(GIGANTIC) NOLA set-up,with ASR driving it.The bass towers DEFINITELY are NOT accurate,and stood out,clearly!Yet they went DEEP,and I guess some would love it.NOT for me,though.Just my taste.
I have heard the Nvas/orig Utopias on many,many occassions.With a vast array of stuff.Tubes and solid state.
I LOVE the potential these speakers have,but I believe it is the room that will dictate ultimate sucess,so long as componentry is up to task!
The speakers seem to like a long wall set-up,though Singer uses a deep wide room to generate "that" sound.Yes,to me the Zanden amp drove them to almost perfection,on the day I heard them.Using familiar discs.I was quite surprised,as I have also heard the "tweets" tweeting too much!Not this time.The bass was certainly not a problem here.If it was,then I just did not care,at the time.
The EBA french solid state amps,on a long wall set-up,was a stunning experience to me(probably the best I have heard on these speakers),with the original Utopia(very warm,with slam,and good harmonics).Bass was the best,and tightest I have heard here.The two occassions I heard the speakers sound good(to me)were good enough to not worry about actual bass accuracy.It was JUST SO good,that sometimes one "lets go a bit" with fanaticism.These two times were the REAL DEAL,for me.
I believe the speaker is NOT TOO overpriced.I get the impression JM Labs is trying to hold price a bit,though it did go up.Just an opinion.
This speaker throws a HUGE stage,and one I cannot believe my Ascent can touch,in a large room.I still don't believe Scull,when he claimed the Ascents he owned,before the Utopias,could fill his huge listening space,but what do I know?
I bulit my dedicated room specifically for my Ascents,with the input of Avalon(at the time,yes CH designed them).One reason why they sound SO good,but under 35-40 hz they need help,for the last amount of depth,and impact.Then,PERFECTION, in this amount of square footage.
If I were to move to a bigger room,I would not consider anything less than the NOVA's though.I don't think my Ascent/Rel combo could handle that amount of square footage.My friends think I am nuts,but it's my call.
I am probably moving in a couple of years(kids are older,and going on their own)so will consider the new room very carefully.Hence,my non stop "analysis" of stuff,for future.How much fun is this hobby,sometimes??
Best!