What speakers can b considered as world reference?

I agree with Audiobroke, and with Drew's response. There is lots of "live" music which sounds terrible because of the intermediate amplification/reproduction (like most rock concerts and outdoor concerts without a "wave guide" bowl behind the musicians). Drew noted that most concerts of orchestra and choir , jazz ensembles, or soloists do not use electronic amplification. However, seats at the orchestra differ, as do nights when they play, and sometimes there are the people next to you who whisper (or in jazz clubs, smoke, laugh, etc). That said, there are lots of great jazz albums which were "recorded live" and sound good despite the clinking of glasses and silverware, the voices, chairs scraping on the floor, etc.

For me, the reference is what makes my favorite music sound the way I want it to sound. It does not have to be "perfectly" reproduced with the smoothest frequency response curve, it does not have to have the etchiest detail, and I do not need the feeling of sitting in the very back row at Hollywood Bowl when I am listening to Peter Wispelwey on solo cello. Instead, my reference is getting goosebumps and smiles the umpteenth time I've listened to a piece, and having confidence that it won't change next time.

Let me guess, hmmmmm >>>> BOSE of course nuff said!!!

Since MBL seems to depart from most other designs as far as being omni, what are people's opinions of MBL's?

Interesting discussion about backwave. I believe that is one of the major design paramaters of the ceramic/kevlar wrapped cabinet in my Cerious Technologies speakers. I know at least in the reference model ceramics are lossy enough to absorbe the backwith with no internal damping poly, foam, felt, etc.

Since MBL seems to depart from most other designs as far as being omni, what are people's opinions of MBL's?

I think Omni or dipoles are similar. They will load the room more evenly and you can achieve a natural sound with cheaper drivers in a dipole....but too much reverberation can be bad and if you place these close to a rear wall then it may ruin the imaging or even risk sounding claustrophobic or cluttered. Like panels these designs should be brought well out into a room and will work best in a large room. Dipoles work great in movie theatres....especially for surrounds.

In response to Drew

>I've never been to a concert where an orchestra or choir used any sort of amplification. I've also heard unamplified small jazz ensembles and soloists playing classical guitar, sax, piano, hammer dulcimer, harp, violin, viola, cello, accordion, etc.

Thats why I said in my previous post"(except for classical and intimate jazz of course, where there is no PA system)" If those are the types of music you listen to then "live" is just the musicians and their instruments. My post was entirely refering to most concerts that people go to. I think I've been to maybe one concert in my life that didn't have a PA system, and that was the Cleveland Orchestra. ALmost everybody else uses amplification. (in Cleveland) These are the likes of Coldplay, Rush, U2, Phill Collins, Sarah Mclaclahn, Norah Jones, Police, Trans Siberian Orchestra, Enya, AC/DC, Metallica, Joe Satriani and the list goes on forever. I will say, we don't get many intimate artsy jazz clubs or the like around here, (though I wish we did) but for most music there is a PA in a large scale venue with about 35,000 people there. I have even seen the singing angels around christmas time also, and guess what? Sound reinforcement. Even small bars/clubs have sound reinforcement like 99% of the time. Otherwise the drummer and guitarist will drown out the singer. They have to have it.

So I think we are sort of saying the same thing, but from different paradigms. I would agree that "live" sound if defined as intimate jazz or orchestra with out the aid of a PA can sound really good, especially if you are sitting in the "sweet" spot. In that case I could see that you might want to try to arrange an audio system that you could close your eyes and feel like you are there. My original post was geared for the majority of live concerts that are not that acoustically superior, are played in big echoey venues at incredible volumes. Lots of noise, the bass hits you like a minute after the treble, and depending where you are sitting, you could be getting all left channel or all right channel. THis was why I was confused as to why so many people want to replicate "live" sound. I think it sounds like a good theory in their minds, but when it comes down to it... it isn't.

Lets face it, when you go see Rush (or any other large venue players) live, and you close your eyes, there is no way to tell where the musicians are in the acoustic space, there is very little soundstaging, and imaging. They are also not necesarily at their best that night, and they make mistakes! I heard Eric Johnson live, and he was having some trouble hearing himself, and it sounded way off. But his CD sounds fabulous. This kind of live I would never want to duplicate. That was my point.

In response to the more recent MBL discussion, I think they are amazing. I've heard them and they are amazing. Spooky.