vintage versus modern speakers


Since I have had so many excellent insights and answers to my question, here is the second chapter of my "free" education: are great vintage speakers (Infiniti, JBL,Sansui, Sony, etc..) from the seventies better sounding than what is available now? the X factor in that equation is the cost, since my speaker budget is only 1500$ for two speakers.

Ladies and Gentlemen, your advice will be read and taken into consideration.
Thank you.
rockanroller
I'm afraid that I have a mostly contrarian opinion that falls in-line with Timlub's thinking on vintage vs. modern speakers. I don't think that modern speakers are necessarily better SONICALLY than their vintage brethren. Yes, BUILD-wise, the modern speaker has a lot of positive attributes going for it such as better manuf technologies & more tightly controlled manuf process for speaker drivers. Yet, given these 2 items, it does not mean that the speaker manuf will do a better job designing a better speaker today vs 30-40 years ago. In fact, quite the opposite! My experience from audio shows, listening to people's systems in the USA & over-seas tells me that most modern speakers are SONICALLY no better off than the vintage equivalents.
Modern speaker tout modern materials such as Kevlar, aluminum, Berrylium, etc, etc but I have yet to come across very few select speakers designers who can use these modern materials to their advantage to make a speaker that sounds like real music. 99% or more of the modern speakers just cover up their dismal performance but touting exotic materials, CNC machining, CAD design of their x-overs, etc, etc. When you have a 1-1 conversation with the speaker designer, I quickly realize that they have very little in-depth knowledge of the effects of their x-over & what it does to the phase of the music signal. Many don't even realize that preserving the phase of the music signal is the name of the game in speaker design. Many others do but they don't know how to solve the problem so they cobble together some highly compromised solution that is good enough knowing that the consumer's eyes will glaze over when the throw out some buzz words if they (manuf) are questioned by the consumer.
Further almost all modern speakers have impedance & phase curves are worse than the most hellacious roller-coaster you have ridden. These fast changing one-moment capacitative-next-moment-inductive impedance/phase plots will drive almost all amplifiers to their knees leading to only sonic dissatisfaction. Only the hardiest (& obviously very expensive) amplifiers will be able to muscle the modern speaker into producing reasonable sounding music. Most other amps will output sound from the speakers but they will leave a lot to be desired. The user will forever be on the audio merry-go-round. In fact, there is even a thread to this effect on the "tech" or "misc" forum.....
I realize that the OP has cited his SAE amp's specs & even informed us that Pass or a close associate of Pass had a hand in designing this amp. Having a famous person design an amp means only so much w.r.t. its sonic performance. The amp-speaker interface is very important (discussed at quite a bit of length in either the Amp or Speaker forum. Might be worthwhile reading that thread to narrow down which speaker type will fit best with your SAE amp) & most people put very little thought into it only to be disappointed later on. A solid-state amp's current delivery into a varying load, dynamic headroom, (for me) bipolar vs MOSFET, negative feedback, signal bandwidth, power bandwidth, output impedance are some of the criteria that set one amp apart from another to do the right job for the speaker in mind. If you are going to fix the amp (SAE) better ensure that the speaker selected can electrically mate with this amp.
Purchasing a modern speaker by no means implies sonic pleasure when installed in one's system. Just troll the Speaker archives on Audiogon & on AudioAsylum if you are not convinced. Very few modern speakers will give you long-term sonic pleasure & almost all of them will cost you more than $1500.
Many vintage speakers in good condition will last for a very long time - several have cited Infinity & AR as some of those brands. There are several planar speakers too that fit into the excellent-sounding, good-condition vintage speaker category. Yet another brand with superb sounding speaker is Tannoy - not mentioned before - esp. those that used their 15" Alnico magnet dual-concentric drivers. I believe one can DIY one's cabinet & also buy ready-made cabinets if one can get hold of these Alnico drivers. And, many vintage speakers will sound just as good if not better than modern day speakers with just a component upgrade to their x-over. Infact, I'll 2nd Larryi's post in saying that some of the best sonics I have heard are from speakers using 1920-1950s speaker drivers in modern manuf cabinets.
So, don't rule out vintage speakers from your search list. In the end, none might fit your budget/space/looks criteria, so be it....
Just my 2 cents worth, FWIW. YMMV.
Wow, that was quite a post!

I did a comparison of my own with a higher end Denon avr(3801) in 2 channel mode. I compared some 80's -90's speakers from Paradigm, polk audio, Mission, Boston Acoustics and Mirage. These were all just popular speakers that retailed for under 1000 except the Missions.

I've also got some almost new Tannoy DC 4 with the dual concentric drivers, mind you in a 4" version. They sounded better than all of them in the mids and highs reproduction. The Bostons sounded best with 80's rock, but with all of them the inner detail, the finer resolution was not there. The Missions were simply too bright for me.

I would submit that maybe you could get speakers back in the day with equivalent sound reproduction of today's better speakers. But now you can get that for a lot less money due to better manufacturing technology and materials.

And a 20-30 yr old speaker is going to develop issues with foam rot or crossovers. Most people are not speaker repair technicians.
Let me understand everyone's argument here. You are saying that If I spent $1500 on the used top of the line speakers from the seventies that were priced at tens of thousands of dollars then, but I can get for $1500 used now (in perfect working order!!) that new speakers that costs $1500 today are better sounding??? I'm not sure I agree with that assessment. Maybe, but I'm not sure.

If I found a pair of top of the line Infinity Kappa speakers that costs about $20,000 in the seventies, vs new speakers today that retail for $1500, I'm pretty sure the Infinities would be better sounding. Assuming that parts are all in good shape.

That would be my concern. Are the crossovers and drivers in good to excellent condition? The surrounds are probably dried out and cracked.

But, straight up, a NOS pair of excellent condition seventies top of the line speakers that I can buy now for $1500 vs brand new $1500 speakers today? Hmmmmmmm.

enjoy
But now you can get that for a lot less money due to better manufacturing technology and materials.
I disagree! Runnin, that's what I'm trying to say - today's newer materials have not necessarily translated into better sonics. For 99% of the speakers in today's market, that's an emphatic 'no' from my experience.
02-09-15: Runnin
Wow, that was quite a post!
LOL! :-) glad you "liked" it, Runnin....

one more point to the OP - make sure that the speakers you select are suitable for the Voltage Paradigm (as opposed to the Power Paradigm) since you will be using a solid-state power amp.
You can search the Audiogon archives for Power Paradigm & you'll find that Ralph from Atma-sphere has very generously given us a lot of info on this subject. Good topic to be versed in. Now, most of the speakers are voltage paradigm but not all of them are. If the speaker is currently manuf, the manuf will be able to shed light on what sort of amp works the best. If it's an out-of-production speaker, troll Google to get as much info you can on that speaker....
Probably more info than you bargained for but IMO important info to make a wise/educated selection. FWIW.