Revel Salon 2 versus WP 8


Anyone done a comparison?
psacanli
Jkalman,

You are giving your in-room measurement too much weight. These measurements below 600 Hz have little to do with the speakers and a lot to do with the room. Above, although you are measuring room reflections as well, you can tell more about the speakers behavior. The differences are not as subtle as you may think. The steady decline of the W/P trebles, starting at 4K, will dramatically change the overall balance of sound. In general, even under rough measurement like what you have here, you can see that the Salon, are smoother and better behaved overall.
Dhaan,

I'm well aware of how measurements work. I've read the Master Handbook of Acoustics, some portions more than a couple of times. I understand that in-room measurements show the room interaction with the audio output (this is very basic stuff, which makes your post seem condescending to me...). I know how to analyze the two signals and see which are room modes, which are room nulls and how they cancel out between both speakers in an overlay.

What you aren't taking into account is that the Salon2 and Studio2 are both shelved up ~2dB in areas of the treble. You can see this in the Stereophile anechoic response from this months issue. That isn't balanced, it is shelving... OTOH, the W/P 8 does roll off after 12K, which is something I mentioned previously in that other thread when some people were saying it is bright (it isn't bright, however, the Salon2 is bright in comparison... You can hear it too, which I'm hoping will fade more as it breaks-in further). I was open in the last thread about having a list of issues I've had with the W/P8. The kickdrum issue and high frequency roll-off are major ones.

Likewise you can see the extra bump between 60-80Hz of around 4-5dB on the W/P8, which is a bit heavy in the kickdrum area. This is audible and bothersome in my room. If that area of the frequency response weren't already experiencing room reinforcement it might be pleasant to have some extra kickdrum, but with my room issues in that area it is too much. That is the room though, much more than the speaker, as you can see that the Salon2 exhibits the same issues but with 4-5dB less amplitude.

Now the shelving down in the mid-range on the W/P8 is actually useful design if you want a speaker that can be placed close to walls. This shelving is what allows the speaker to be placed well in a HT or other room where it needs to be out of the way. The Salon2, even with boundary compression turned on to the fullest still has to be placed out significantly further from walls in my room or the chestiness cause by bloating in the 200-300Hz region is intolerable. The boundary compression doesn't work that high up in frequency. So if I wanted to place both speakers in the same area by the sides of the room I would still need to use PEQ, but I would have to PEQ different areas of their frequency responses (W/P8 60-80Hz, and Salon2 200-300Hz regions).

My experiments with both speakers so far have shown me that thoughtful design doesn't have to mean a flat frequency response. In some cases an intentional shelving of the response allows for closer boundary placement, as is the case with the W/P8.

I digress though, I keep forgetting that your sole intention around here seems to be to sling mud at Wilson speakers and try to sell Magicos. Perhaps you should work on balancing your own approach to things. You would likely come off a lot better on these fora if you didn't assume nobody but yourself knows anything about these topics.
I haven't done careful comparisons yet because the Salon2s are still breaking in. It does seem like the Salon2s are more foregiving, but a little less transparent in the critical mid-range. I have heard more transparency develop during the break-in process, so I am not sure what to expect when I come back to both speakers to do more careful A/B tests in early March. There is more bass extension with the Salon2s. There is also greater bass detail with the Salon2s so far, but this is with the boundary compression turned on, not with it set to normal.

I do have a lot of live "Grateful Dead" recordings that sound better with a little forgiveness in the playback. So this should be interesting. I have started a list of plusses and minuses on my AVS forum HT thread concerning both speakers in relation to each other in my room:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=748097&page=1&pp=30).

The room itself is an important consideration for me. I ultimately have to choose what will work best in my room situation with a 128.5" diagonal recessed screen in the center of the room. Room placement is an issue because of this. Compromises have to be made one way or the other. I don't think there is going to be a "best" speaker so far between the two, just another situation of having to choose what will work best in a given situation. I would wager, anyone who open-mindedly demos both thoroughly will find the same thing, and a choice will have to be made on what works best in his/her listening space. I'll be sure to give my opinion on which I would choose if room constraints weren't an issue.
Damn would I love to get Jkalman and Dhaan together with their choice of speakers and have at it. I know I would learn something.....
Jk,
Sorry for referring to your conclusions based on the in-room measurements you supplied. If you are aware of their shortcoming, why are you posting them? Anyway, back to the subject, the Ultima tweeter is not shelved. It has a rise response, starting at 10K. It is a big difference then shelving (You can also see the nice impedance of the Revel tweeter in comparison to the w/p, although, the delayed energy, seen in the cumulative spectral-decay plot is concerning). In regards to your comment on the w/p mids shelving , it is anything but useful. Remember, wrong on wrong is still not right. In regards to my sole intentions, yes, you are partially right, I cannot stand the fact that the most successful high-end speaker ever is a practical joke. It says something about this hobby, which I am a part of. I see it as my duty, and a service to the audiophile community, to expose the nakedness of the king.