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ARC Ref3 or McIntosh C2300/2500

Can anyone comment on their actual experiences with these two pre amps?
I am considering an upgrade to my Audio Research LS26 and these are the ones I am considering. Both priced similarly on the used market, the Mac offers more features such as Phono and DAC (C2500) which is useful to me. But most important is how they sound. What I am looking for is more the "magic" tube midrange sound (which the LS26 does not have) as well as the wide and deep soundstage that I do have.
Just to compare, I put in a older VTL 2.5 pre amp and the midrange was much more to my liking than that of the ARC which sounded a bit "sterile" and "analytical" as the reviewers say. But the VTL did not have the wide soundstage nor quite as deep, fast, and top as the ARC.
Other gear :
McIntosh MC402 amp with Wilson WP6 speakers
ARC CD3, ARC PH5, VPI Traveler, Benchmark DAC. Transparent cables.
I listen to all sources, mostly classic rock, Jazz,
Thank you
vdosc
minorl
1,016 posts
 
No contest for me. REF3.

The McIntosh unit was nice but the REF3 was at an entirely new level.

You already have a PH5 phono unit which is not bad at all. Also, you have a Benchmark DAC. Although I'm not familiar with this DAC, I wouldn't get the Mac solely because it has the phono and DAC built in. That tends to lower the quality of the reproduction of the sound.

Separates usually make for a better system.

Another thing, is how old are the tubes in the REF3? If they are close to the useful life, the sound may be compromised.

With new tubes, not much comes close.

The REF3 and the REF5 however are so close in sound and quality that I would not upgrade to a REF5. However, the REF5SE on the other hand is entirely different. A really nice unit noticeably better in sound (enough to justify upgrading) than the REF3.

In my opinion, the Mac unit isn't on the same level.

enjoy
billstevenson
352 posts
 
Based on your stated preferences, I believe you would find the ARC Ref3 to be the better choice.
theo's avatar
theo
2,681 posts
 
I have to chime in here as I am a McIntosh guy. I have McIntosh amps and have had a number of McIntosh amps and Pre-amp and Pre-Pros. I currently have a LS26 and would say the REF3 without question. As much as I wanted to by a C2300 when I bought my LS26, it took a moment of self control and honesty to depart from an emotional attachment.
Yes the REF3 will bring you much more musical pleasure.
kurt_tank
1,189 posts
 
The Ref 3 is a great preamp, (and I agree with Minor1 about the Ref 5 & Ref 5SE). However, IMHO, it does not really have that classic tube midrange sound that you said you want. It uses the 6H30P tubes, which are very neutral sounding, and very quiet, but don't really have that classic tube midrange. (Personally I like it, as I like a very neutral sound myself.)

I recommend that you check out some of the VAC preamps, (there are a few for sale here on Audiogon). The VAC house sound has a bit more of the tube midrange that you said you want, at least IMHO.

Good luck in your search.
david12
1,454 posts
 
I agree with the recommendation for the Ref 3. All I would add, is that the LS27 is a definite step up on the Ref 3, having auditioned both together and both can be found second hand.

Another thought if you are looking for a "tube" midrange, is Conrad Johnson. I used a CJ 17LS for years and just loved it. You only get Phono, not XLR outputs of course.
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