Change to Horns or stay Dynamic

Sirspeedy,

You have the right guy. It was nice meeting you at the show. That room didn't do much for me. I just wanted to give it a chance.

Rhyno,

Found it a few days ago. Thank you. Romy seems to really hit a few key points in his analysis about horns that line up exactly with what many others say & with what I have heard.

The bass speed & extension limit remains the most difficult to circumvent without having tremendous horns. I need to read more. One thing I will say for sure, understanding design first will allow a more informed choice in speakers. It will also help explain what we hear. The problem with 20 Hz in a horn is the size requirements and length of the horn. Hence all the back loaded horn designs etc.

Shadorne,

It is funny how ATC & PMC have not been as successful in the US as other companies. The truth is, they don't have the looks or the WAF to make them special. I am going to make the effort to hear them, as too many ears I respect have migrated to this direction. It is a gap in the market that really needs filling. I heard a wonderful speaker in Munich that I would almost accept. Backes & Muller. A German brand with some truly unique design elements. The sound was incredible and they use a unique "horn" type tweeter with active amplification. I didn't read a lot about it but it was one of the best sounds at the show. Something special. The price was also "special" in the 60-100K range at least.

As far as eye watering abilities, I am going to merge this conversation w. Exlibris question and do a redirect on the thread.

Exlibris,

It depends on what we listen to as our reference. The truth is a true live concert leaves me fatigued. That is for Rock & Roll. Classical is a different stor as is Jazz. But there is pressure and it can be fatiguing. I think live music is fatiguing at times as well. Especially anything with a large group. We feel the pressure.

So my question is - are we able to live long term w. the pressure or do we need 2 systems. I think the pressure will get to be much at a certain point. But any large venue does produce sound pressure/air pressure. From the crowd the room etc. Have you ever been to a restaurant w. poor acoustics. I find leaving the restaurant to be a relief after a point in time.

Is the pursuit of live vs. "musicality" in conflict. Is that why many people use SETs for horn systems? Mind you many people are using class D amplification or digital amplification on horns these days. I have a feeling that is probably too honest for long term listening enjoyment.

I am speaking in circles but at some point this hobby is steering me and many others in circles.

I just went to a live jazz show last night and I didn't find the pressure too much. But the room was very large and it allowed the sound to relax. and not overload the room. I guess the speakers we buy determine what venue we want to be inside.

darren, sounds like you and i are after the same thing; after listening to the WP6s for years, i'm growing tired of their distortion, their blurred microdynamics, and the lack of dynamic expression...despite wilsons being the most dynamic monkey coffins i've heard.

the ? to you in your experience w/ cessaro et al: how'd they do w/ a drum kit? bass guitar? seems like this hobby is all about compromises, and horns mean you compromise the bass & weight of the performance, or you compromise your domicile with a gigantic speaker.

ATC might be an interesting solution.

best

Two horn speakers with your stated requirements of wide dynamic range with low distortion at high output levels are the Summa by Dr. Geddes and the Jazz Modules by Duke Lejune of Audiokinesis. I have heard neither of the these speakers but the general consensus in the various forums is that for both loudspeakers these are the main characteristics where they excel.

It may not be coincidence that the design philosophies are similar in both cases. Both Loudspeakers use high quality pro drivers and waveguides for the compression drivers and are constant directivity designs. Dr. Geddes has done extensive research in distortion perception and dynamic compression issues in loudspeakers, has put forth the Waveguide Theory (as opposed to Horn Theory) and holds a number of patents related to loudspeaker design.

I Have no relation nor have I ever met Dr. Geddes but I have been impressed with the depth of his knowledge in his postings. For a crash course and to deepen your knowledge and understanding of horns and waveguides do a search on diyaudio.com under the author "gedlee". Oh, and by the way both of the aforementioned choices will leave a chunk of mullah in your wallet compared to the high-end darlings of today!

Cheers,
George

All I can find about Geddes' Summa is talk and theory, but no real reviews. Their web site absolutely sucks. Anyone got a picture of one of these???

Dave