Which Sub. Rel B-1 or Fathom F-113

Not true, the Rel subs are more musical and also faster. They integrate better with high end speakers. If you are going 2 - channel get the Rel. Nothing loads a room better than a Rel! I dont think you will need the brute force of the JL, which is better for high SPL. BTW, there is absolutely no port noise.

You have to try them both. The Rel will win because they are fast enough to keep up with you Martin Logan's and disappear into the background

I hate to say it but you are delusional/ BTW, I would like to think that my Wilson X-2's are high end speakers. Prior to my pair of Gotham subs I was using a Wilson XS which had a pair of 18" drivers. After I heard the Gotham I immediately sold the XS as IMO it couldn't compete anywhere near as close to the Gotham.

I agree that the pending 212 will be great as well. When it comes to JL Audio subs there hasn't been one critic that feels there is a better sub made.

Here is an interesting read from Jeff Fritz

http://www.ultraaudio.com/twbas/twbas_20080401.htm

Obeobgyn, HAVE you ever tried a Rel subwoofer???? I have tried a JL and the REL... and the REL won in MY room in MY system. Not all subwoofers are the same and integrate well in all rooms. I have a small room and the JL was too much, too sloppy and too boomy. It didnt sound good at all. The Rel blended perfectly. Have you tried some aftermarket cables as well? I'm using a Synergistic Rel spec speaker cable which works wonderful, better than any sub cable I ever tried. It really brings the performance to reference quality.

You have a big room and big speakers so I'm thinking the JL worked better for you, but you will not know for sure unless you tried a REL. Rel's biggest are the B1 and Stentor III and Studio III sub, have you tried any of them in your room????

Joeyboynj,

Your post is not only fair but honest as well IMHO. You are fair enough to point out that the REL worked best in YOUR room and YOUR system. Like you, I have had both subs - I had BOTH the Rel Stentor IIIs (stereo pair) in my system AND now I have a stereo pair of the JL Fathom f112s.

UNLIKE you, I came away in MY room and MY system with the exact opposite impression. While I very much enjoyed the RELs (I even reviewed them for Stereo Times and gave them a very good rating), the Fathoms are even more seamless, faster and the best part for me is that they are more musical because that amazing driver provides better articulation, harmonics and the low level detail and musical nuance that I didn't quite have with the REL.

Like one of the posters stated above, I prefer the 112s in my 14' x18' dedicated room.

The great thing about audio is that we do not have the same tastes, preferences, rooms or systems and can therefore disagree (or have dissimilar experiences) without anyone being right or wrong.

Joey

I have a very good friend who has the TOL Rel in his system and each time he listens to my setup he just shakes his head and smiles.
As far as cables I have ~$50K of cabling in my system so I am very familiar with cables and you are preaching to the choir. For the size of your room the F112 either singly or as a pair would work just fine. I agree with the previous poster as to the speed of the JL Audio drivers.
A final caveat is perhaps your room isn't set up correctly or your subs weren't positioned properly.
I also agree that it is a matter of preference. IMO the REL used to be the leader of the pack but they now have some catching up to do

speed of the JL Audio drivers.

"speed' is a good description of the JL design. What does this mean in practice?

It means low group delay - which means critically damped design and generally a sealed box.

Compare the Group Delay and response plots from HT Shack Subwoofer Tests.

SVS PB13 ports open

SVS PB13 Sealed

Notice that a port can raise output level, reduce distortion however the trade off is Group Delay. Basically it allows the use of a cheaper driver and a smaller cheaper box to get the same undistorted output as a more expensive sealed box design.

Most subwoofers are intended to make a profit for the manufacturer and therefore you can guess which way most designs go......ported!

What is the downside to group delay. Well it means your bass will sound 'slow' like it does with bass bins folded horns at a concert...for each bass note you are getting an extra cycle or more from the subwoofer and hence it lacks "musicality" and there is a loss of accurate timbre.

A glance at the REL Storm 5 shows that it too has low group delay and is indeed a "fast" or musical sub. (I have seen no data on the B-1)