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The Richard Clark "all amps sounds the same" test


Okay, I know there has been tons of commentary on this issue, but I have a specific question. And it will make it clear why I'm posting this amp question in the speaker threads.

I'm curious if anyone knows if Maggie 20.1s or something equally hard to drive and equally transparent has been tested? I know planars have been used on his test, but I don't know any details.

Oh - for those who don't have any idea what I'm talking about see:

http://www.tom-morrow-land.com/tests/ampchall/rcrules.htm
and
http://www.tom-morrow-land.com/tests/ampchall/index.htm

and if you google it there is almost endless commentary on it.

Okay - but I want to test the following:

Magnepan 20.1s
Pass Labs X350.5 or XA160.5
Pass Labs Pre? (Don't care as much)
EmmLabs CD Player

Then, we need a low-cost amp. Now, the trouble is, he has a reasonable request in his test, each amp has to be used within its thresholds, so no using them at 300 watts when one is rated at 30 watts. Obviously with one clipping and the other one not clipping you will hear a difference.

This also applies to a 4-ohm speaker. So, assuming someone hasn't done an extremely similar test and can just tell us the difference, the next question is what is the worst amplifier that is rated at 4 ohms? While the X350.5 is high-power, the test could be done at 85 db, so you don't need too many watts to make that work.

This would effectively answer all the "maggies need high power to by dynamic" and lots of other similar questions. Because the test is at one db level, does one amp really push more bass out of them than another?

Hey - actually wouldn't Tympani IVs be harder to drive? Maybe we should use Tympani's :).

What do people think, is this issue still alive or has someone resolved these issues? I have to think I could hear the difference and may have my wife run some singly-blind tests for me - I don't have any of the equipment above, but do have 3.6s and an Aleph 5. See how that Aleph sounds compared to some sort of $100 amp rated at 4 ohms.

Might there be a 4-ohm rated amp in a boombox or bookshelf system? I'll poke around. Sure a single op-amp chip in a bookshelf system (often what $100 system amps consist of, just a few chips) would sound worse than a Pass Labs Aleph, which Stereophile said compared to the Levinson 300 lb amps?

Oh - and the essence of my idea with this test is that perhaps the sound is 'more similar' on speakers that are easier to drive, but with 20.1s - and this is just as important - with a highly resolving ribbon speaker - the difference might become more apparent.

Oh - also, I'm not sure if he allows me to choose the music, but I have found over the years certain parts of certain passages that show the differences of components more than others. I think that would also be important - what passages are played, as on some I would believe the differences would be impossible/difficult to detect.

If I'm just repeating stuff that can be found elsewhere let me know... Just seems like we should be able to bust this test.
lightminer
aptquark
99 posts
 
cool post Lightminer, here is my take

The circumstances for a controlled experiment (in this case) is very unrealistic. As much as one tries to equate the comparative amplifiers, there is now way that setup will be truly equal in ALL respects. Here, inherently is the problem of this experiment. If there were a way to definitively control these variables (and yes, there are some very minute variables expressed, but none the less) then this would be a great experiment in every aspect of its intent. Personally, I have heard tremendous differences between amplifiers that I own. Granted, this was not under an extremely controlled scenario.

Cheers
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,577 posts
 
Lightminer, I read somewhere that Richard Clark refused to pay up when the conditions of his test were met. Do you know anything about that?

I also understand that there remain some validity issues relating to the signal source hookup as well as the means to switch between the amps. The saying is 'garbage in garbage out'- the test will be impaired if proper attention is not paid to correct inputs and outputs. IOW, it is not possible to switch back and forth on the fly since the connections in such a scenario will be severely degraded.
rhljazz
1,250 posts
 
And all cars drive the same, all toilet paper wipes the same, all wine tastes the same. If you can't hear/feel a difference, it doesn't bother me. Your test is a total waste of time IMO.
shakeydeal
979 posts
 
What's interersting to note here is that this is the same Richard Clark of car audio fame. I followed him back in the 80s from his Cadillac sedan deville to his Buick Grand National. Simply put, two of the best car audio systems I have ever heard, and better than many home systems.

But what I'm getting at is the fact that he chose expensive Alpine electronics for his show car. Surely if he believed all amplifiers working within their power bands sounded the same, he could have achieved the same results with, oh say, Pyramid (low level chinese made) amps instead. But all the stuff in his car from the head unit on back was pricey, boutique electronics. Anybody see what I'm saying?

Shakey
gilbodavid
62 posts
 
Yep i do. i've had two great alpine car systems, one of which would play a dave brubeck at carneguie hall cd so much better than my $3000 cd player into leak tl12+'s and stacked quad57's. go figure!
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