A Perennial Debate For Which I Seek Help


Wire, Terminations, Dielectric, Solder, in summary, the linkages in our systems, the terminals in the path. Doubting your cabling can only lead to paranoia, and thus, fearing the snub of fellow audiophiles, you shun the Tuesday night shootouts, the gatherings that once made Tuesdays better than Fridays. Please, don't shun the shootout, I know of no gathering more intoxicating. They remind us we are alive and human, no mere beast in search of flesh and sustinance alone.

My Situation - I recently had a pair of speakers upgraded with new caps, chokes, posts, wire, etc... Not until I went to install the reworked crossovers, however, did I realize how cheap the connection was at the drivers. The woofer has a small terminal board mounted on the basket where the lead wires attach to two stamped rivets. The rivets and brackets are both loose. These clips are followed by a 3" wire to the woofer, some sort of tin-coated cotton or wiring of similar texture and tensility.

As for the tweeter, one of the even smaller pins used for the lead wires snapped off. I could try to solder it back on, yet more fundamentally, with all the money spent on speaker cables, IC's, perhaps hundreds on binding posts alone, aren't these shoddy driver terminations, hidden inside the cabinet, an egregiously weak link in the chain, or am I missing something specific about this particular connection? Any insight is truly appreciated.
nycwine1
I also upgraded the crossovers in my speakers.Some of the
parts i replaced were very cheap. The upgrade made the speakers a lot cleaner, and I mean a lot.
As with your connection question,why would a well known speaker builder go to the trouble to make sure the cabinets
and drivers are just right and skip on the internal parts?
I guess they don't expect anyone to open them up.


Markphd, I assumed you would return with such a response. I need not have an identical agent internally and externally to make my point.

Pray tell precisely HOW the components on the INside of a speaker will improve the cabling running TO the speaker from the OUTside? It can't. To assume that if the INternals of the speaker are superior the EXternal link is less critical, or need not be improved is flawed logic. The only way this logic is sustained is if the external cabling's efficacy is largely written off. I assumed you had taken that position, and it appears that you confirmed it in your last post.

In fact the better the speaker is constructed (assuming that performance will follow), like a fine race car (with high performance engine) the more critical the external cabling (like tires) is, if one is to achieve the best performance. In this particular case, the external cables become more important as the performance of the speaker rises, since the speaker will reveal the quality (or lack of it)of the speaker cables, ICs and PCs. (I could alternatively suggest the higher performing speaker would reveal superior synergy between components, or the lack of it.)

You seem to fall prey to the faulty conclusion that if the component is made well enough, the wire leading to it is negligible. Wrong. In a system every part is critical. Any element which deals with electricity and the signal are equally important. You first post here simply dismisses (or downgrades the importance of) the external element - the cable. That's a huge mistake. The statement, "If the inside was done really well, there wouldn't be anything to improve upon by changing the outside wires," shows ignorance on the subject.

It is inconsist to suggest that futzing with speaker components internally will yield improvements, but that the wire externally is negligible. The reason you have reached this conclusion, it appears, is that you have a limited budget, or in principle do not want to spend a lot on cables. (I am not judging you; I do not know your financial situation. However, you seem to make it clear that money is a major influence on building your system.)

You seem to speak authoritatively with(it appears)little experience. You say, "But I would expect cable improvements to be more subtle since there are fewer variables to work with when changing a cable as opposed to an entire component," and "I'm not wealthy enough to experiment with a lot of cable changes anyways. So if my thought are wrong, I remain happy in my ignorance. I feel no need to change anything." Those are the words of an intellectually stubborn man.

In other words you have nothing to offer other than your logic. No experience, no direct comparisons, just a judgment. You seem to dismiss cables as less important because they are not as complex as box components). Which is more critical, the brain or the artery? For the circulatory system to operate at its optimum both must be functioning at a high level, even though it might be argued that one is more complex than the other. Similarly, both the "brain" (components) and the "arteries" (cables) in the audio system must be of a high level to assure optimum performance. I think the illustration is clear. You may disagree, but if it is without experience in matters of testing/comparing cables, then you have nothing other than your assumption and (in my opinion)faulty conclusion.

I agree with you on this point, that the distinctions between cables are subjective. However, with fine equipment and in an excellent listening environment the changes often are anything but subtle. Pricing is going to be every man's own issue; I have on the whole found that cheap cables sound cheap. Not exclusively, but many times you do get what you pay for, and of course, different brands may offer better bang for the buck.

Recently I visited an audiophile nearby. He had AntiCables throughout his rig. He was not satisfied with the sound of the rig. I brought over one pair of Wire World (I wrote the review on Equinox 5 Squared cables for Dagogo.com) ICs, and after a moderate length listening session put them in. The difference was shocking, even for me. He immediately began asking for information on obtaining them. I heard the difference clearly in two seconds, and it took less than a minute for me to conclude that (at least in that system) AntiCables do not sound good to my ear. They left a huge amount of information behind which did not get transmitted through the speakers. Based on that experience I likely would not use them in any of my rigs, as I would be gutting the system's performance. On economical rigs their effect would likely be less noticeable.

If you have a lower end rig (I never dismiss or disrespect persons who have a limited budget, and have equipment at a modest price point. What gets me upset is when they try to dictate what can happen using gear at the higher end of the spectrum) you will likely feel justified in your conclusion because you have not heard such differences. If that is the case, you need to realize that your experience does not preclude others from experiencing extremely significant/important benefits from cabling leading TO the speakers.

You are an intelligent man, and think things out well. However, in this case I believe that experience would impact your perceptions and conclusion. :)
It helps to remember that by the time the signal gets to the speakers, it has gone through a number of systems, interconnects, processing, and perhaps massaging it as well. Whether that is good or not for the signal is a matter of choice.
For an analogy, wine by the time it gets to the barrel to age, has gone through a number of steps. The barrel like the wire inside the speaker can be anything. It all adds or subtracts from the future taste just as the inside wire adds or subtracts from the final effect that we call sound and more hopefully music.
What works for one grape or combination will not work for another despite what some wine makers say, based on my experience, being based in the Sonoma-Napa region, a lot gets tasted and toured.
Same for wire, some cabling works great for some gear and not for others. If it were all simply plug and play this would not be a hobby so much as child' play, then again...
It helps to remember that by the time the signal gets to the speakers, it has gone through a number of systems, interconnects, processing, and perhaps massaging it as well. Whether that is good or not for the signal is a matter of choice, I like massages myself.
For an analogy, wine by the time it gets to the barrel to age, has gone through a number of steps. The barrel like the wire inside the speaker can be anything. It all adds or subtracts from the future taste just as the inside wire adds or subtracts from the final effect that we call sound and more hopefully music.
What works for one grape or combination will not work for another despite what some wine makers say, based on my experience, being based in the Sonoma-Napa region, a lot gets tasted and toured.
Same for wire, some cabling works great for some gear and not for others. If it were all simply plug and play this would not be a hobby so much as child' play, then again...
Uru975, Yes, I concur; you have stated in a more artistic fashion the importance and influence of the system.