2. amps-preamps
  3. 1428160381

Clayton Audio Class A amps. Need amp advice

Hi Guys,

I am looking to change my amps and for a few reasons.

First because I just upgraded my DAC from the great PS Audio DirectStream to the incredible Bricasti M1 DSD USB DAC. I love the Bricasti and it has shown that in my system it could offer me more with a more resolving and neutral amp IMO.

I am currently am using the wonderful sounding CJ Premier 12 mono tube amps. I love them and tubes in general but my speakers are the great Ascendo C8 Renaissance and look to present a somewhat benign load being 88 efficient and 6ohm but they are unique and have an internal firing 21 cm Kevlar Bass driver that is great but stubborn and the speakers I think will really shine with a iron fist control of that driver.

I love tubes, always have and always will but I grown tires of a flabby bottom which is exasperated by a unique and somewhat difficult to grip bass driver set up I spoke about above.

I want an amp that can give me as much tube sound as possible but with Grip and bottom end. I know this is a lot to ask for in the used $5k to $7k price range.

I have read and it seem like the Clayton offer exactly what I am looking for but wanted to hear from some of you guys if anyone has ever heard them or know of them or anything. Any info would really be appreciated. Here is the info on my speakers and I will also list the rest of my system in case you think that is helpful. Thanks

C8 Renaissance
Technical Data
Principle
• Three-Way with SASB bass unit (TOS Off)
(current damped outer driver with semi symmetrical band pass)
• Four-Way with SASB bass unit (TOS On)
Dimensions (W/H/D)
• 28 / 80 / 40 (without Base)
• 28 / 108 / 40 (with Base)
Weight
35 kg
Frequency Range
29 Hz (-3 dB) – 32.000 Hz
Power Rating
350 W Program (min)
Impedance
6 Ohm
Sensivity
88 dB / 1W/m
Outer Chassis (COAX)
• 25 mm Neodymium-fabric-tweeter
• 18 cm Woofer with XP cone
Inner Chassis
• 21 cm Chassis, Kevlar cone
TOS Chassis
• Ribbon-tweeter
TOS Function
• switchable (TOS Unit - Dipole AN / AUS)
Sockets
• Single / BiWiring Base
Dimensions (W/H/D)
28 / 18 / 40 cm
Weight
11 kg

Ascendo C-8 Renaissance Speakers (Germany) Speaker
Purist Audio Design Corvus Praesto Revision 2.5m Bi-Wire Speaker cable
Darwin TRUTH Pure Silver Reference 1 Meter RCA Interconnect
Darwin TRUTH Pure Silver Reference 1 Meter RCA Interconnect
Bricasti M1 USB / DSD / Volume Control DAC (New) DA converter
Tellurium Q BLACK DIAMOND Reference USB Cable
Decware ZSTAGE External Triode Output StageTelefunken ECC801S
Audio Research REFERENCE 1 MK II w/Rhodium IEC/NOS Tubes Tube preamp
PS Audio PowerPlant Premier AC Regenerator
Conrad Johnson Premier 12 Mono's 140 Watts Tung-Sol KT120's Tube amp
Salamander Amplifier Stands (2) Synergy System AV Furniture Stand
BMI Shark Jeweler Grade Platinum 9 AWG AC Power Cable
Mad Scientist PC-NEO with Power Purifier 11 AWG Power Cable
Sablon Audio Petite Corona 2.0M 7 AWG AC Power Cable
JPS Labs The Power AC+ 2M 8 AWG AC Power Cable
Synergistic Research Labs Tesla Series SE T1 AC Power Cable
Synergistic Research Labs Tesla Series T1 AC Power Cable
PS Audio Noise Harvester (5) Converts noise to light
OYAIDE RI Beryllium Power Outlets (2)
Blue Circle Audio The Yalu Balula Industrial Surge/Spike Protection
JPLAY v5.2 hi-end audio player turns PC into a digital transport.
Fidelizer Pro Version 6.1
JRiver Media Center 19 Music Software
128x128Ag insider logo xs@2xfsmithjack
mechans
3,048 posts
 
In the end just go with what your heart tells you that you wanted. Whether its validated in this forum or not. There were some minor things I took issue with myself, distracting suggestions, for instance a suggestion you roll the tubes in your ARC pre amp. I found it very difficult to get much out of doing that myself, albeit with a different ARC pre. This coming from a possessed tube roller looking at moving cartons full of tubes. I was impressed that your power amps had the new Tung Sol power tubes which should have given your bass some bite and punch.
Go for it, get some big class A power amps, I would be sorely tempted to do the same. Some of the other suggestions may be valid in fixing different shortcomings, and are almost irrelevant until your main question is answered. Good luck-
bill_k
918 posts
 
Fsmithjack - With all due respect, you need to keep in mind that Class A operation is just one operating specification of a given amplifier design. I have found myself caught up with this in the past, searching for a product that meets a checklist of several desired design characteristics (i.e. Class A bias, fully balanced circuitry, all discrete components, linear power supply, etc.) In the end I found that the best amp for my setup was the Rowland 625, which is not fully class A and uses a custom switched mode power supply. What really matters is how all of the design aspects work together and how the resulting amp works with your speakers to best meet your desired system objectives. Unfortunately the only way to know how a given amp will all work with your setup is to try it. Other users' experiences will vary as do their systems from yours. If you are unable to audition amps in your system before buying them it can be a costly learning process. However as you previously stated buying used gear will help in this regard as you can often resell and recover close to your cost. Good luck as your search continues!
fsmithjack's avatar
Ag insider logo xs@2x
fsmithjack OP
712 posts
 
Fantastic responses and thank you very much... Really great stuff... I mean sure its just audio people talking audio which in itself is great but its funny because you guys are right for sure I'll never know till I hear them.

Mechans is a man after my own heart...

Rdoc & Bill_k good points! I know these guys are cookers... I live MA which helps but we have some pretty hot summers up here...

Mitch2: Great info - thank you quite helpful...

Jriggy: actually had one on load that I tried with my Sophia 2's a little way back. Not the best match for them in a pretty big room but a great sounding amp and if I could swing a good trade deal I think that amp perfectly fits the best of tubes out off ss but no used ones out there. Prob why cuz they legit sound like tubes. I don't care if the designer tweaks them to sound nice with distortion or what ever. If they sound great and can drive the speakers then heck ya!!!

Bill_k: I agree 100%. Man the more I chat with you guys the more I wish I could hear first.

_________________

OK just for the heck of it. Here is a hypothetical. I know you don't have much to go on but with what you do have and if you were me (back to hypothetical) and you had to choose one of these two what one would you get:

TUBES
Conrad Johnson LP140M Mono Blocks

LP140M - 140 watts from 30 Hz to 15 KHz at no more than 1.5 % THD or IMD into 4 ohms (also available connected for 8 or 16 ohm loads)
Sensitivity: .5 V to rated power
Frequency Response (at 10 watts): 20 Hz to 20 kHz, +/- .25 dB
Hum and Noise: 102 dB below rated power
Input Impedance: 100 kOhms
Tube Complement:
LP140M - 3 x 6922, 4 x 6550 (per amp)
LP140M - 16D x 19W x 6.38H inches
Weight:
LP140M – 53 Lbs x (per amp)

Retail $14,000.00

or the

CLASS A SS
Clayton Audio - M300 Monoblock Amplifiers

Class A Operation
Fully Balanced
XLR Inputs Only

Thermal Protection
Power on Sequence Control
Rated power output:
300 Watts continuous rms into 8 ohms
600 Watts continuous rms into 4 ohms

Gain: 26 db
Input Impedance: 100k ohms

Power Consumption: Low Bias Mode - 300 Watts
Power Consumption: High Bias Mode - 800 Watts

Dimensions: 11.00” W by 20” D by 11.50” H
Weight: 87 lbs. each

Heat sink capacity: 0.13 degrees C/Watt Stable Temperature
Reading at Center of heat sink: 122.1° F. Stable Temperature
Reading at Right and Left Edge of heat sink: 124.1° F.
- POWER and BIAS Switches -

Note: Switches are not visible from front panel. Instead they are hidden from view and accessible from underneath the front of the chassis

Retail $13,500

If trades we not involved I would love to add others but after a good amount of searching and emailing and calling and chating it seems these are the best 2 options I have come up with. Nothing is perfect and I know people may think I am crazy for thinking so but I value the recommendations and feedback I get here and appreciate it and it plays a bigger part in my decision making process than people think it should but I love getting as much info as I can and then going with my gut and shooting from the hip. There is no doubt for my taste and situation the CJ is the safer bet but I am not afraid to take chances and would love to hear what you guys think even though some people think it shouldn't matter... It does to me :)
zd542
5,339 posts
 
Retail $14,000
Retail $13,500

For an amp at those prices, there would be no hypothetical anything. The only decision I would have to make, is car or plane.
mitch2
4,034 posts
 
Frank, make sure you are getting M300s that have had the PS upgrade. I believe the retail price of those amps is actually up around $16,500 for a pair that has had the upgrade. If someone is telling you $13,500, those may not be upgraded amps. I recommend contacting Wilson to confirm the amps have been upgraded, based on their Serial numbers..
On another topic, I believe the CJ LP140s are supposed to be sonically different from your Model 12s. Another reason to listen to them before buying, if possible. Maybe LP140 owners could weigh in.
Finally, if there is no deadline on your decision, I recommend trying a free audition of the Ncore amps in your system. You might be surprised.
More to discover