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Looking for speaker recommendations under $5K



Greetings. After 51 years on Earth, I'm new to the world of high end home audio. Always knew you guys were out there, but was never did anything about it. Suffice it to say I thought my Pioneer L80t3's sounded great paired with a Denon AVR 1803 receiver. I had no idea what I was missing.

Well, I bumped into an old friend (who I later determined is a fellow Audiogoner) at the Phil Lesh concerts at the Nokia Theater in NYC last Fall, and next thing you know I've got a pair of Energy 2.2i's (purchased new on what I now know was a closeout from Audio Advisor) connected to a Pioneer VSX 59TXi receiver and a Pioneer DV 79AVi DVD player (both Pioneer units purchased here on Audiogon). Also have a Hsu VTF3 MK3 sub (also purchased on Audiogon). Not the greatest setup, but night and day compared to what I had. I'm using some hand twisted/sanded magnet wire (ala Anti-Cables) for speaker cables. I have the speakers bi-amped - although I'm not quite sure why. DVD player is connected via Firewire and via MIT Terminator2 interconnects. Sub is connected via Blue Jeans LC-1 subwoofer cable.

My listening room is 20x25. Thin carpet over concrete floor. Plywood walls all around. Believe it or not, room acoustics are good. (Or so I think LOL) I listen to lots of Grateful Dead, but more importantly to any high quality recording I can get my hands on. Everything from Dire Straights to Eric Clapton to 10,000 Maniacs to Alice in Chains to Frank Sinatra to Miles Davis. Definitely into acoustic music. I buy all the remasters of the 70's music I can get my hands on, as well SACD or DVD Audio discs within reason (which rules out Neil Young's Harvest - which is going for $100, as is Frank Sinatra's Live at the Sands).

So, now that I have a taste of your world, I'm wondering what I might be missing. I would be willing to spend $5,000 on a new (or used) pair of speakers - if doing so will make a noticeable improvement. And I'll buy a new preamp and/or amplifier if it will make a noticeable difference.

One of the reasons for the timing of this inquiry is the fact it seems Energy will be unable to provide warranty support for my speakers. I don't know exactly what the problem is, but I noticed what I can only describe as "distortion" when I was playing the Alice in Chains MTV Unplugged DVD the other day. Don't know if its the speakers or some other problem. I have noticed some very minor "anomalies" in the past, but never could put my finger on any specific problem. I have been writing it off as "diginoise" (I don't know if there even is such a thing) or to my ever-declining sense of hearing. Or perhaps to the auditory hallucinations brought on by having attended over 300 Grateful Dead concerts. Fortunately, 99.8% of the time the speakers sound fantastic.

However, well prior to hearing this "distortion," I have been scouring this site and every other site I can find to try to get some idea of what "upgrades" I should be considering. For some inexplicable reason, I have a desire to acquire a pair of floor standing speakers. (That desire has nothing to do with the size - or lack thereof - of any part of my anatomy. LOL) I gave the Anthony Gallo 3.1 a listen recently. Sounded real nice, but didn't have a reference disc with me to make a meaningful comparison. Plus, the exposed nature of the drivers in those speakers probably wouldn't be the best idea considering I have a 12 year old and a 13 year old who, along with their friends, like to play on their Xbox in my listening room.

So, I would really like to hear some suggestions/comments/criticisms.

Thanks for listening.
deringer
unsound
7,329 posts
 
I agree with Shadorne, at least the first part. Not as big a fan of the Revel's, but that's besides the point.
Budget for a system! Sure, choose your speakers first. Do make sure that the speakers will work in your given room, and work back form there. Your new speakers might be best suited to very different amplification. Your room might need a bit of treatment, etc., etc.
6550c
393 posts
 
Based on your system and music taste - you might try Cerwin-Vega's CLS-215s. Pound/dollar it might be the cheapist speaker made.( and the loudest) lol. and if you like them you could afford 4 more sets.
richlane
167 posts
 
Hi Deringer,

Well, at least the first step is to admit that you have an Audio Problem at home. (LOL).

You can get some wonderful speakers for $5000, but if your goal is to build a high-end audio system, than I think that money should be spread around a little more. Although your Pioneer Elite Receiver is a decent receiver for background music and perhaps a Movie. I wouldn't consider it to be the foundation of a High-End Audio System, to be used for critical listening

I think you need to view this system as more than just buying $5000 speakers. You can buy $10,000 speakers hook them up to your modest Pioneer Receiver and they will probably sound terrible. You could also buy $2000 Speakers, a $2000 Amplifier, and a $1000 external DAC (Digital to Analog Converter) to be hooked up to your very good Pioneer Elite CD/DVD Player to be used as a Transport and get an absolutely wonderful sound. I think that's what your goal should be.

I know you're probably asking yourself what's an external DAC? All CD players have an internal DAC to convert the sound from Digital Bits to Analog Music, so that we may hear the sounds through our stereo system since we can't hear in digital. For the most part, these internal DAC's in modest CD Players are usually inexpensive, and bare bones just to get the job done. An external DAC, will attach to an input on the back of your Pioneer Elite CD player, using a digital cable, and it will take your musical reproduction to new heights. These external DAC's may cost anywhere from $250 to $25,000 however you can buy an excellent used DAC from $1000 to $1600 in my opinion, and then about $100 for a decent digital cable. The good news is that your Pioneer Elite CD/DVD Player will be more than up to the task.

Now onto preamps; a preamp will allow you to control the volume and select a source that you would like to listen to. Now, more bad news, the preamp in your pioneer receiver is not very good, sorry but true. The good news is that a lot of the new external DAC's on the market have built in volume control's and some even have a built-in source selector. Some people only listen to CD's and they don't need source switching capabilities.

If I were designing your System, I would recommend that you get; Floor-Standing Speakers for that very large room of yours, a separate Amplifier, and an external DAC; with a Volume Control, remote, and possible switching source ability depending on your needs.

To give you a starting point of reference..., I absolutely love the build quality, form factor, value, and musical reproduction of Bel Canto gear. I own a Bel Canto Ref1000 Monoblock Amplifier, and I can highly recommend it; check out all of the reviews on the internet. This amp was $4000 new, but can now be had for $2000 here on Audiogon, because the new Ref II model just came out this year. I also have owned the Bel Canto DAC3, which I absolutely loved as well, and this was $2500 new, and approx. $1600 used.

Speakers, are a more personal selection, but you can probably get used speakers here for $2000 and up that would meet your needs, that originally sold for $5000 new.

I would think you need a tower speaker with at least 3-4 drivers that goes down to at least 30Hz-35Hz for the bass region in that huge room of yours. A few brands that I can recommend you check out are; Vandersteen 3A, Von Schweikert VR-4jr, Aerial Acoustics 7B ,Verity Audio Fidelio, and the Vienna Acoustics Beethoven Concert Grand.

Read some reviews, find a good dealer, sometimes you could get a good deal on demo gear, listen to some speakers, and then after you decide on speakers, then you could match up an Amplifier, DAC and Cables.

Regards,
Rich
daverz
487 posts
 
But Mikey Fremer liked the Pioneer VSX 59TXi. It's been blessed by one of the high priests of the faith.
emorrisiv
313 posts
 
First let me say I am very biased toward dipole planer speakers.I own both box(Snell E) and planers(Acoustat 2) and I love them both, but if I had to give one up it would be the boxs. That said,buy yourself a nice set of Acoustats. You can get them here on Audiogon or Ebay for less than $1000.00! Then spend the rest on a Antique Sound labs Hurricane tube amp(used).These speakers are special. I have had mine for 29 years without any problem except for cats climbing them (I am on my third set of socks). Once you have experienced these speakers, it is hard to go back to boxes.Detail,imaging,presence are all words my audiophile friends use when they hear them.
Also indestructible.I have had these with kids,cats,dogs,moved across the country twice and survived it all.
I suggest the spectral models if you can find them (2200,3300,4400).If not those then get the 1+1,2,2+2,3,3+3. Preferably with medallian transformers, but you can always have the transformers modified.(big improvement!)
The bigger the model,the more efficient it will be.
Do not get the ones with the sub woofers. ESLs and subs never,NEVER work! The subs are too slow for the super fast panel and timing suffers.Martin Logins sound disjointed and not homogeneous because of this.
Just sit back and enjoy some Joni,Solti,Kings,Monk or whatever you like and enjoy.
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