It Was 40 Years Ago Today...

Oh snap, a personal insult.
That speaks directly to the individual rather than the subject matter.

Sorry if I offended.

My point was that your characterization of Mac's music as interesting until the "bubblegum team " reflects a rather limited view of both Mac's music prior to Buckingham Nicks and after their arrival (for the specific reasons stated). That's the substance of the subject matter - and I'll stand by the assertion.

You might want to listen thru the Mac catalog a bit more carefully before assigning the broad characterization. There was plenty of pop before BN and there's a ton of material thereafter that's a million miles from bubblegum. You're certainly entitled to prefer the before to the after, but that doesn't change the fact that your brush was simply too broad.

I'm older than you, have all the original pressings, and saw the band 5 times before 1976.
Don't lecture somebody who knows more than you. It could be embarrassing.

I was away for a few days, and missed all the excitement!

Marty, I have the live ABBA CD, but haven't listened to it yet (it's only been, what, ten years? I have about 6,000 of them left from my days as the Indi CD buyer at a Tower Records store, most of them still sealed! I just sold 1200 of them to Amoeba records to fund my new Pickup Arm). And you're right Marty, ABBA's Bjorn & Benny were absolute masters of "the hook". Better at melodies than McCartney, and maybe even than Brian Wilson! If you like Pop, you must know of The Wondermints, Brian's touring Band. The original bassist Brian Kassan (he left right before they hooked up with Brian---doooh! They weren't doing enough of his songs) started a Group after he left that he named Chewy Marble. I play on about half of the second album, "Bowl of Surreal". He's a real good Pop songwriter and, like all members of the L.A. Pop scene, an absolute Brian Wilson worshipper.

I have to hand it to you Marty---you're the first person I've read say what I've long felt, that The Beatles were a Pop Group, not a Rock n' Roll Band. I love your brand of Pop/Rock (the term Power Pop has lost all meaning from overuse, hasn't it?). Don Dixon is a great producer as well as artist. I'll bet you like Marshall Crenshaw too. One of the best Bands I ever saw live was his 5-piece, in '82 at one of the New York clubs (The Peppermint Lounge, I think). He had Graham Maby (Joe Jackson's original bass player) on 6-string Fender Bass (the one from the 60's, with light-gauge strings, tuned an octave below a guitar), as well as standard 4-string electric bass, his Brother Robert on drums, and another guitarist (beside himself), and all of them sang. Fantastic!

The Fleetwood Mac I love is the line-up that did the Kiln House album. It was unusual (and welcome) to hear a pretty popular Group (especially British) doing music with such unashamedly American 50's R & R as it's source and inspiration. And in 1971, in the middle of a not-very-R&R era (the hippie bands saw to that). The Danny Kirwan/Jeremy Spencer guitar team was great I thought. I also like Lindsey Buckingham, and thought FM's huge success with him taking over was well deserved. I has seen he and Stevie live locally in '68, in their Group Fritz (San Jose had a LOT of Groups/Bands, being probably the Garage Band capitol of the country in the 60's. When The Doobie Brothers got their deal with Warner Brothers in '71, my Band auditioned for their former gig as the house band at the infamous Chateau, a biker bar up in the Santa Cruz mountains. We didn't get it).

Speaking of Chuck Berry Marty, for anyone unaware of the following guy, you absolutely must acquaint yourself with Dave Edmunds. Imagine a guitarist who perfected Chuck Berry's guitar style, sings as well as just about anyone (plus arranging harmony parts as well as anyone this side of Brian Wilson), and is a superb record producer (for The Flamin' Groovies---the great "Shake Some Action" album, the Fabulous Thunderbirds, The Stray Cats---don't hold that against him!, Rockpile---he and Nick Lowe's supergroup, and many, many more. One of Rock n' Roll's all-time greats!

I forgot one thing. I agree with you Marty, my description of the ingredients necessary for a recipe to be Rock n' Roll IS too narrow, and was said mostly as a means of explaining why I don't consider what Springsteen does to being R & R. While the definition fits R & R's original incarnation (the Sun Records artists), R & R, being a hybrid Pop music, is free to evolve, incorporating new elements and influences, and discarding old ones. There remains, however, a minimum requirement of those original ingredients needing to be present in a music to fit any definition of it, and I don't think Bruce's music meets that minimum. That alone doesn't make it "good" or "bad", it was just a topic of intellectual discussion!