Harbeth vs JM Reynaud

"10-10-15: Wim1983
@Ryder: if a speaker sound too analytical and ruthlessly revealing, any solution to tame those extra details using preamp? Or it would be difficult to find such gear and do the matching?"

If you want to build a system that you're happy with over the long term, that's not a good way to do it. Each component should be able to stand on its own without any help. The last thing you need is to buy a speaker and immediately after, start buying components in an attempt to fix problems. And even is you somehow manage to get it right, it makes upgrades a nightmare.

"Having said that, you may consider different amps to tone down the brightness of your Wharfedale Jade 3. I have read the Stereophile review of the Wharfedale Jade 3 and noticed that they used tube amplification to drive the speakers. Audio Research tube power amp and Audio Valve Eclipse tube preamp. The smoothness and warmth from tube amplification may have formed a great combination with the analytical and detailed Jade 3s."

Buying tubes doesn’t guarantee anything. You can still have the same exact problem with tubes in the chain. If you're looking for a "warm and smooth" sound, you can just as easily get it with solid state.

Looking at the Jade 3 bright/harsh issue, most of the suggested fixes, are in some way looking to cover the problem up, not fix it. Rolling off a speaker with other components does nothing to resolve the underlying issue. Most of the time, problems with high frequencies, comes down to a matter of timber. For example, cymbals don't sound like cymbals, they sound like someone dropped a piece of metal on a concrete floor. The proper fix would be to make the cymbal sound like what its supposed to. Do that, and you'll have a system that plays fully extended highs, without sounding bright/harsh.

Buying tubes doesn’t guarantee anything. You can still have the same exact problem with tubes in the chain. If you're looking for a "warm and smooth" sound, you can just as easily get it with solid state.

Looking at the Jade 3 bright/harsh issue, most of the suggested fixes, are in some way looking to cover the problem up, not fix it. Rolling off a speaker with other components does nothing to resolve the underlying issue. Most of the time, problems with high frequencies, comes down to a matter of timber. For example, cymbals don't sound like cymbals, they sound like someone dropped a piece of metal on a concrete floor. The proper fix would be to make the cymbal sound like what its supposed to. Do that, and you'll have a system that plays fully extended highs, without sounding bright/harsh.

Yes, I agree that getting tube amplification does not guarantee anything, and I am fully aware of that. As a matter of fact, ANY ACTION does not guarantee anything, not even getting new speakers. In the end, it will depend on the listener's expectations in getting the sound that he wants from his system.

For wim1983's case, he can choose to fix the issues of his system in many ways. For me, it would be in the order of the room/speaker placement > speakers > amplification/source > accessories (cables and stuff). Usually there is not much that can be done to the room as most room acoustic products have low WAF which will look out of place in most domestic listening environment. So it's usually down to speaker placement, loudspeakers and then the electronics.

Let's assume wim1983 chooses not to go with tube amps and opts for a new speaker to replace his Jade 3. There is no guarantee that the speakers will work in his room, even if he has listened to them in-store. Having said that, I agree that getting the electronics to "cover up" the problem may not be a permanent fix, but sometimes that can actually be a fix to compensate for the imperfect listening environment/room acoustics. The room itself is the biggest factor that gives coloration to the sound or the system.

In summary, for wim1983's case, if he feels that the sound of the speakers (although bright) is still within the 90% of his ideals, he can still consider to tweak the system to make it work. The caveat is the experiment can turn out to be a costly affair. Otherwise, get a new pair of speakers and start all over - which in turn may not necessarily guarantee 100% satisfaction. In the end, it's all about managing expectations.

You can't fix a high frequency timber problem with room acoustics. I've tried to do this many times. The directionality of the high frequencies just doesn't allow for it. There's a direct line of sight between the ear and the tweeter, and the only way to make any progress, is to change the sound coming out of the drivers themselves.

"Otherwise, get a new pair of speakers and start all over - which in turn may not necessarily guarantee 100% satisfaction. In the end, it's all about managing expectations."

True, but the only way to manage expectations, is to demo equipment before you buy it. Otherwise, its just guessing and hoping for the best.

10-11-15: Zd542
You can't fix a high frequency timber problem with room acoustics. I've tried to do this many times. The directionality of the high frequencies just doesn't allow for it. There's a direct line of sight between the ear and the tweeter, and the only way to make any progress, is to change the sound coming out of the drivers themselves.

True, but the only way to manage expectations, is to demo equipment before you buy it. Otherwise, its just guessing and hoping for the best.

Room acoustics will address most frequencies in the spectrum from high to low. High frequencies are easier to address whereas low frequencies are more difficult as mass/volume is required for absorption. Piercing highs or a bright sound is mainly due to less-than-ideal acoustics of the room (other than bright speakers) caused by reflection of sound waves from hard surfaces. Have you used aftermarket room acoustic products before? I used to have a dedicated room and have tried several acoustic products all over the room (I prefer diffusers more than absorbers, though a combination usually works wonders.)

Demoing equipment in-store and listening to the same system at home will likely(or should I say mostly) produce different results. That is the reason I have mentioned there isn't a 100% guarantee that one will be happy with the results even after a demo session in-store, as the results at home may turn out to be completely different due to the setup of the speakers/equipment and room acoustics. However, it is still a better option than doing without an audition.

"Room acoustics will address most frequencies in the spectrum from high to low."

I'm talking about what comes out of a loudspeaker, not how loud it is. Altering a frequency that may be too loud is not the same as changing timber. You can't get what's not there to begin with. It has nothing to do with room acoustics.