Vintage DD turntables. Are we living dangerously?

Thanks Pryso - yes indeed typo. Thanks for the link. If you google around should find a picture of the SP02 set up with 60lb Neumann flywheel. Be great to have a set up like that for a domestic TT.

Lewm or Halcro


One of you mentioned a thin leather mat made in Japan, could you post a link to it please ?

Thanks in advance


Peter

Hi Peter,
Victor made a special pigskin mat for their Laboritory Series DD decks like the TT-101 
 http://imgur.com/UnMbyr3 
I was lucky to find one 3 or 4 years ago but they are really scarce.
The closest sounding alternative I have found is the thin Jico suede mat which was launched about 6 months ago.
Regards

Halcro
Is the colour of your mat black or is that just the way it appears in your pic?
The one that I have is tan.

Dear friends: I think that Dover have several reasons to be highly proudly as a Final Labs TT owner.
If I been an owner ( that unfortunatelly I'm not. ) I will be really proud of own it.

In those vintage/Golden BD TTs years the Final Labs TTs was " unbeatable " about its unique design characteristics and no TT ( I know ) like MELCO, American Sound or Micro Seikis were a real challenge for it.

Against the Final Labs any Micro Seiki ( I 'm an owner of it. ) is just a " child toy ".

IMHO Final Labs was many years ahead of any other BD TT. Other of what Dover posted here you can read something on that TT:

http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=6359

Normally BD TTs has an achilles heel against DD TTs: speed stability, W&F and SN ratio numbers. So what? nothing is perfect.

Tell me who of us can detect/aisle differences between 90db and 92db on SNratio? or between 0.020 and 0.015 on W&F? or between 0.001% and 0.0012% on speed stability or speed deviation?.
I'm sure I can't do it but the higher/better numbers gives me mind calm and " proud ".

Speed stability is always important but is only one parameter in the overall characteristic in a TT design and TT quality level performance and IMHO can't ( per se. ) define that overall TT quality performance.

So we have not to " cry " because " lower numbers " till you can detect it against quality performance levels.

I think that Final Labs can't compete ( in numbers ) against the best japanese DD TTs as Technics ( 10 MK3 ), Denon ( DP 100. ), Yamaha ( GT 2000 X ) and Pioneer/Exclusive ( PL 70L/ P3a. ). Not even the DD 801 by JVC.
 Btw, the JVC TT looking was a copy of the older Denon TTs, in the other side the double servo ( 1976 ) pioneered by JVC came in the Denon TTs ( not the 80/75 I own. ) too.

Probably the one that beats ( now defunct. ) all those DD TTs was the one  by Rockport.

Subjective " values " are always important. I made " amateur " mods in my MS control/power supply unit ( btw, the motor came from Panasonic/Technics members of the Matushita gigant japanese group. ), in my SP 10s and in mi Denons ( 80/75 ) and in all those mods I " heard/hear " improvements or I WANT that be in that way. 

When we are doing " something " , in any audio link on the audio system  chain,  to have a " sure " improvement our brain is just waiting for it and we can " hear " it when we finish that mods.

Now, the Krebs TT mods are not executed by an amateur like me  but for a professional  gentleman. I try to find in the Krebs's site the " numbers "  ( those numbers ) before and after the mods and there is nothing about even that ( for an audio professional. ) is really easy to take measure on W&F, SN ratio or speed stability.
For me is a must to have. Everybody that use those mods speaks many subjective " things " that no one can be sure why is that.

Things are that Richard himself is here and maybe he can be so gentle to give us light on that numbers that can corroborate those owner opinions.

Here I'm not asking for " rocket science " but if those mods are so " fabulous " must be reflñected on those " easy " numbers.

Lewm, just think this:

suppose that your unit, before the mods, was running on manufacturer specs. Example 92db on SN ratio: what if after the mods that " figure " gone down to 84db?

If that happened to me then I will rethink what really I'm listen to.

Why in vintage units as the SP 10s we have to wait for improvements? well 30+ years running the TT always degrade any unit, so a " refurbished " one can perform better.
If we re-oil the bearing/spindle on any vintage TT is almost sure we can have a better TT overall performance.

In the other side, when we made system mods what we are doing is changing the level and kind of distortions and if the mods were made by a professional I want to know those numbers.
Many of us are accustomed to listen high distortions in our system and we are " sure " that what we listen is more musical information  when it's not.

I know that many of you don't care about and if you like what you are listen then: that's all about and nothing wrong with that because each one of us are " unique " and as any audio product or any audio mods no one is PERFECT and individual audio/music priorities are different between people.

I hope that Richard can gives an answer that could gives some certainity foundation on its mods and what the people hear other that: " wow " or " I like it ". I'm sure that all the audio community will appreciate that.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.