Linn sondek vs sme


I recently read a thread actually comparing a Linn sondek to SME and many saying that the Linn "outperformed" an SME.  Really?.  Are some people on LSD or is this a fair comparison as I am looking to upgrade in the near future and was planning on listening to SME.  I never thought they were in the same league.  I have been told that my modest scout beats the sondek.  How can that be true?  The thing is I have no dealers for either locally.  Only VPI and project.  I think I want to movin a different  direction than VPI.
tzh21y
tzh21y - Nothing wrong with the VPI arms.  It's users that claim there is a problem because they don't know how to use the VPI pivoted arm.  Or you can just invest in a Jelco SA-750 (name your length) and have a good-working pivoted arm that will far outperform any Linn arm.
Well, that may be,  if they are that difficult and fussy, then it is not worth it.  I actually had my table sent out and professionally set up and when I received it, it was not right and I had to reset it up again.  That would mean that all the VPI tables I have heard have never been set up correctly.  Geez. It will be interesting to hear the linn. Maybe I just need an SDS?
Comparing turntables can be really difficult. If one really wants to compare turntables, one needs to mount the same tonearm and cartridge on both turntables one intends to compare - and hope that there is not sample-to-sample variation between the tonearms and cartridges. Of course, some turntables like the Linn don't work well with some heavy arms like the SME IV and SME V, tonearms made to work especially well with SME tables.

Perhaps easier to accomplish is a comparison of turntable and tonearm combinations against one another by using only the same cartridge, again hoping against too much sample-to-sample cartridge variation.

And any of these comparisons depends upon each turntable having been competently set up, including not just suspension, VTF, VTA, anti-skate and overhang but placement on a rack or platform suitable to the turntable. Linns tend to perform best on light but rigid platforms while other beefier turntables like the SME perform better on beefier supports. 

I do not live near a dealer who has the inventory, time and expertise necessary to facilitate these comparisons. I do not believe that many dealers have set themselves up in a way both to facilitate these comparisons and remain in business. That leaves knuckleheads like us to either perform these comparisons on our own or to rely upon distant but knowledgeable dealers or other experienced audiophiles who can guide us based upon decades of experience with turntables - and probably plenty of the cold shoulder from their wives. 

There remain a few really experienced dealers and a host of audiophiles who persist as arch Linn LP12 partisans, some of whom have performed comparisons under competently controlled conditions, i.e. turntables set up well with the same arms and or cartridges with good platforms beneath the tables. Those marching in the LP12 ranks have some credibility. They tend to be older, more experienced audiophiles. Some of the partisan Linn dealers sell competing turntable brands at higher prices than Linns if their customers reject a suspended subchassis turntable like an LP12. 

For my part, I have compared my own LP12/Cirkus/Kore/Lingo 3/RB300/Koetsu Urushi Vermillion with my Spiral Groove SG1.1/Triplanar VII iii/Koetsu Urushi Vermillion. The Linn lost in this comparison on a number of fronts - noise, bass weight and dynamics, midrange realism, etc. - but lost by little enough that I have been encouraged to further upgrade my LP12 to a Radikal/Keel/Ekos SE version on which to hang my beloved Koetsu. We will see how that comes out but I believe that, based on how the Linn narrowed the gap with a much more expensive table in the SG1.1 when I upgraded my LP12 with the Cirkus, Kore and Lingo 3, further upgrades would push my LP12 beyond the SG1.1. We shall see. 

Meanwhile, if you really like your SME or your Linn, God bless you in this holiday season. Both are terrific turntables when set up well and neither brand has a monopoly; there are other great turntables out there including VPI. And either the SME or Linn may really be better than the other in some objective, scientific, repeatable experiment. I suggest that such an experiment is likely to occur only in a world free of audiophiles who each have their own preferences and prejudices. That will be a world in which everyone completely optimizes the set up of his or her turntable, a world without floors that transmit vibrations to turntables, a world with phono preamps featuring entirely flat RIAA responses and optimized input impedances, a world with speakers that are highly efficient and offer a totally flat frequency response. Until any of us arrive in such an ethereal destination, I suggest loving the turntable you have, whether SME, Linn or another; it is probably really good and not crappy. Maybe just check to be sure that it remains set up well and be glad that there are still a few of us interested in competent vinyl reproduction.

Interesting thread. I would not substitute an opinion of a dealer who doesn't sell Linn for an actual audition. 

Am am I biased? Sure, I have and love my LP12. It's far from a bare bones entry level table but it's not top deck either. And it does the whole musical thing very well. Is it a detail master? Thankfully not. 

Is is it noisy! No more so than the record I'm playing. So there you go- go listen, and truly, I have no clue how listening to a record player via a you tube video can be instructive. 

If I were starting over, I would consider an SME 15 as well as a VPI Prime, in addition to the LP12. The Prime impressed me a great deal btw. 


Enjoy the music! 
Speaking of YouTube,  I just saw a couple of lp12s that seemed to sound amazing.  I know it is YouTube but I am pretty excited about listening tomorrow.