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interesting phenomena in the cutting room

We've (my friend Bob and myself) been working on an LP cutting lathe for some years. Its been a while refurbishing the lathe itself, finding parts and solving problems/puzzles, rebuilding the electronics, etc.

The lathe itself is a Scully, the cutterhead a Westerex 3D and the electronics the 1700 series built for the cutterhead by Westerex.

About 6 weeks ago we finally hit upon the magic combination of stylus temperature, vacuum, depth of cut, etc. It works beautifully! So we have been playing with parameters, including different amplifiers. The stock amplifiers were built about 1972 and are solid state.

Now those of you that know me know that I am all about tubes. But the stock amps worked quite well! As we gained familiarity with the system, we found out why: the Westerex cutting system is a high efficiency cutterhead- it does not take a lot of power to make the head work. It can easily cut grooves that no cartridge could ever keep up with, and do so without breaking a sweat. So the amps, which can make 125 watts, are loafing through the most difficult passages.

I had a Dyna ST-70 that I had rebuilt so for fun we swapped that amplifier in and it did quite well. Our next step is to use a set of our M-60s, as the cutterhead is an easy load relative to most loudspeakers.

What is interesting about this is that we can make cuts that literally demonstrate the audible differences between amplifiers, something that can be demonstrated on any playback system.

Its also apparent that the cutting process is relatively unlimited as a media compared to any other recording system. The dynamic range is well beyond that of analog tape or any digital system- like I said, it can cut grooves with such range that no cartridge could possibly keep up, yet is dead silent (if the lacquer is OK, that is). The real limitation in LP recording is the playback apparatus, not the cutters.

There is a fun little forum website for more information called 'Secrets of the Lathe Trolls'. Here's a post on that side made by my friend Bob (Bob has run a recording studio for some 20 years and was a roommate of mine in college):

http://lathetrolls.phpbbweb.com/viewtopic.php?p=19435&mforum=lathetrolls#19435
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rauliruegas
13,103 posts
 
Dear atmasphere:  """"  I can say with a great degree of confidence that you are talking about recording challenges and not anything that is specific to the LP.  """

I agree that I'm talking of some recordings challenges that ( IMHO ) if we can achieve it can reduce all the recording today limitations that one way or the other has  a direct influence in the quality sound performance in any LP.

What we audiophiles want ( at least me. ) is to improve by wide margin the quality level of what we receive in the LP when the cartridge touchs its grooves. I know ( the samples I posted here and many more tell me that. ) that it can do it using the same recording process and even with out use the D2D technique.

What is out of my mind is why the LP manufacturers did not do it yet. We have ( example ) people as Acoustic Sounds where we pay very high LP price and these gentlemans ( with all respect. ) are so " good-for-nothing " that not even can build and sold dead flat ( at micro and macro levels. ) LP's and dead centered LP's ( with no single eccentricity margin. ). So, what they give us?: more of the same, taking each one " big money " for a product that does not justfy that hig price and all of them take advantage that we have no other choice that following buying those severely " damaged " LP's.

What's all about?, any one of you have the " fix " and useful answer? because if yes then please share with all of us.


Regards and enjoy the music,
R.
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atmasphere OP
11,931 posts
 
The quality of the recording has more to do with the producer than anything else. We've done some projects where the recording was clearly not up to snuff but that is what the band or label wanted, and its client/vendor relationship. We've tried to to the best job we can, and so far not had to use any processing on any of the projects we've seen (which has meant that in some cases it took several tries).

Most labels don't want to spend the extra time it takes with a project to do that so the result if often some sort of limitation in the recording.

FWIW, we've done some projects through QRP (Acoustic Sounds' pressing plant) and the results have been spectacular. The groove noise is nearly non-existent compared to other pressing plants- the sound literally erupts from silence, much like playing a lacquer for the first time. But my experience in general sounds like it is very different from yours- I've yet to buy a defective LP from Acoustic Sounds- is it possible you have simply had a run of bad luck??


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atmasphere OP
11,931 posts
 
How difficult in terms of budget, contract etc to re-issue let's say Hank Mobley "Soul Station" or Oliver Nelson "Nocturne" from original tapes? Did you try any of a kind?
To do this you have to gain permission to do the project (usually with some sort of financial consideration); once done then its fairly nuts and bolts.

We did a release of a Michael Rother project about 18 years ago that went fairly well. On small projects the mastering is the major cost and the pressings a smaller but significant percentage. So there's no good answer until you know how many LPs are to be made; experience says that you should have a really good means of selling them set up before you embark on the process!
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rauliruegas
13,103 posts
 
Dear atmasphere: No, I don't think I have bad luck with AS because I bought almost everything they manufacturer. Maybe my standards for " accuracy " are a little different from yours and other Agoner's but at the end I think that you can have a clear idea of what I'm asking for.

Btw, the TEA acronym means: True Expert Audiophile.


Regards and enjoy he music,
R.
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atmasphere OP
11,931 posts
 
What's a True Expert Audiophile??

Regarding 'accuracy': a big problem in knowing accuracy is your reference. I use an LP that I recorded myself, and having the master tapes know how its supposed to sound. So the LP is very useful in that regard- in playing it I can instantly tell how well a system is playing in a number of regards. I am however convinced that one needs such an LP in order to understand what accuracy is all about. So you must have some similar reference that you made. Is it available?
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