Is New Vinyl Exempt from Loudness Wars?
Lp2cd Lp2cd - can you tell us why this is with the Horseflies album. Why the sound would not translate well ? |
ct0517- Understand, I had nothing to do with the production of that album. (Also, Natalie Merchant is not on it...) But why would it probably not work on an LP? The short answer is that CDs are a playback medium that is altogether superior to the LP, a fact that has been argued ceaselessly but is simply true. I'll not argue it further; as has been pointed out already, the problems with CDs lay primarily with the common misuse of digital technology. (Hyper clean recordings don't sound quite right either. But that's a different issue.) On "Until the Ocean," The Horseflies made full, proper and creative use of current recording technology and the CD's capabilities. That is not to say it couldn't be produced to LP, but it would undoubtedly require significant compromises in dynamic range and bass response, which, knowing them, they would likely be reluctant to do. (The Horseflies worked, hard, on that recording for several years!) A further issue surrounding the idea of an LP version of "Until the Ocean," is that very, VERY, few people, especially at the time of its release, had LP playback equipment that would do any justice to that recording, especially if it was dialed down for LP. It's rather a challenge on good CD playback systems, which are far more common, and again, I'm certain that The Horseflies are concerned that their music be optimally heard. (They even bring the fellow who did much of the tracking for the CD, Will Russell, with them on the road to mix their live sound. They're fussy! BTW, Judy Hyman, the fiddler, is Dick Hyman's daughter...) Besides all that, at the time "Until the Ocean" was released, the LP fad was only just getting started. It would have (and still does...) require considerable extra difficulty and expense to produce an LP. It was enough for them just to produce the CD, which they never expected to sell more than a very few thousand copies. So this is all speculation on my part. I've known The Horseflies for decades, and I run into them occasionally. Next time I do, maybe I'll ask. They may very well have an answer that is all their own. |
Lp2cd - thanks for that information. Never knew that album existed, will listen to the sample tracks to see if I like the music. Looking to learn, if I can ask you when you say. That is not to say it couldn’t be produced to LP, but it would undoubtedly require significant compromises in dynamic range and bass response, which, knowing them, they would likely be reluctant to do. I discussed in the first post here how my talks with that engineer, discussed how with digital files going to vinyl, depending on the loudness factor, quality of the files; the bass may need to filtered or mono’ed at certain Hz, along with a filter at the High frequencies - 16k hz for example. It sounds to me that the album you reference was originally recorded very carefully so that there is little of this loudness problem and of good quality? Fair statement ? So when you say significant compromises with the vinyl, are you referring to the physical media itself involved, and maybe that few people remain, that have the skill to do the cutting properly ? And the plants the discs go to - using old equipment and crude techniques. We have all seen how they make records on youtube. Is this what you were referring to? or something else... Just one example of vinyl compromise. My understanding when they cut a record they start with large circles and grooves on the outside and it becomes smaller and smaller as you get inside. In order to accommodate 20 minutes of music the inside circles are smaller in diameter. Harder to track with a pivot tonearm especially with antiskate. Now I have Lp records from artists whose team of people recognize this vinyl design problem, and have put a single album record on two discs; the music does not go much past the physical record’s mid travel point. This is just one example imo of trying to deal with the compromise of this crude piece of plastic. This part has me curious. If I can make one more reference to the Natalie Merchant Tigerlily album and what I found surprising. Btw just an album I picked out and looked up. Am a huge fan of hers and her music gets a lot of play in my rooms. It’s a mid 90’s album 1995 and they stopped using the SPAR coding on cd’s by then. Is the music CD - DDD or ADD ? Some info from the album insert. Recorded Bearsville Studios Dec 1994 - March 1995 Additional recording The Club House, Germantown NY Mixed RPM studios, NY, Additional Mixing Sony Studios, NY Mastered Bob Ludwig, Gateway Mastering Studios, Portland ME. The interesting part for me going back to that DR database album link. btw - I am not associated with it and imo the information it provides is just that - information. if one clicks on this link http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=natalie+merchant&album=tigerlily+ According to this DR database the Vinyl versions of this album have the highest dynamic range over the CD and HD tracks. Why is this ? Lp2cd do you have an opinion on this based on your experiences ? Are we looking at a limitation of the gear being used to generate the data from the database itself ? Anyone else have an opinion on this? Curious. |
