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Tonearm recommendation

Hello all,
Recently procured a Feickert Blackbird w/ the Jelco 12 inch tonearm.
The table is really good, and its a keeper. The Jelco is also very good, but not as good as my Fidelity Research FR66s. So the Jelco will eventually hit Ebay, and the question remains do I keep the FR66s or sell that and buy something modern in the 5-6 K range. My only point of reference is my old JMW-10 on my Aries MK1, so I don't know how the FR66s would compare to a modern arm. So I'd like to rely on the collective knowledge and experience of this group for a recommendation.

Keep the FR66s, or go modern in the 5-6K range, say a Moerch DP8 or maybe an SME.

Any and all thoughts and opinions are of course much appreciated.

Cheers,      Crazy Bill
wrm0325
Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas
13,101 posts
 
Dear cleeds: You are right that I don’t know " almost " nothing about you but your Agon posts speaks for you.

Now and only for your records: This is only part of some very interesting learni9ng experiences I had with some USA Agoner’s that I visited during my USA trips down there where the more important experience was to meet beautiful/wonderful gentlemans where all of them are very well estableshed/regarded audiophiles ( you can contact all of them just to check. ):

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/our-home-system-how-good-it-is

in that link you can read something of one of my trips and can read what some of those gentlemans posted about.


https://forum.audiogon.com/users/fcrowder

https://forum.audiogon.com/users/albertporter


I was two times with these gentlemans ( Houston and Dallas. ) and in both times with different systems at their home places.


https://forum.audiogon.com/users/vetterone

https://forum.audiogon.com/users/thom_mackris


I meets those gentlemans and other persons in other trip. Tom is the designer and manufacturar of the well regarded Galibier TTs ( Denver. ) and I think I heard there the Schroeder tonearm other than in Austin with mab33.
Vetterone lives in Idaho and owns a great audio system!.


https://forum.audiogon.com/users/sbank

https://forum.audiogon.com/users/dougdeacon

https://forum.audiogon.com/users/slipknot1


with those gentlemans I was in other trip when I was around Philadelphia/Boston are and I meet ther with several audiophiles. Even in PHI we had a meeting with the audio association there where I meet directly too with Mr. Walker because Joe´s system has a Walker TT.


https://forum.audiogon.com/users/pryso

https://forum.audiogon.com/users/ctm_cra

https://forum.audiogon.com/users/elinor


I meet those gentlemans in one of those trips in the San Diego area.


In all those meetings we had a wonderful time talking, listening, enjoying and learning of what we all like. Even we participated in several live comparison/shoot-outs between different kind of audio items and in San Diego we did it in Pryso home ( and other audiophile homes. ) and in the major audio distributor home/office in San Diego where was full of people whom attend to my visit. I hpe that pryso can put some memories of those meetings in San Diego where I was for 4 days ( in one of my trips there. ).
I was too in Atlanta, LA and NY doing the same.

These gentlemans hosted me at their homes, I was tehre at least 2 days at each home with several listening hours with.


I take advantage from this post to again say to all of them ( and many more. ) thank’s for your hospitality, thank’s to gave me the opportunity to know human beens of that/your caliber. All of you very very special people.


Please name it any cartridge, TT, electronics ( tube and SS ) or speakers you know and can be sure I listen down there and many more!!!!


Regards and enjoy the music,
R.
Report thisPost removed Feb 17, 2016
Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas
13,101 posts
 
Dear ct0517: "" The ET2 can be tweaked to sound like other tonearms. It is a tweakers delight, and this is why so many can go wrong with it. I can make it sound closer to a Fidelity Research 6 series tonearm too. Are you interested to know how to do this ?  """

appreciated but no because I have not any more. Normally when " something " is not up to my audio/music priorities I just leave behind and I don't turn my face to it. If in the future happens something extraordinary with that can tell me is a must to listen again then I will.

Btw, make to performs as the 66?, that's not for me . If I need something is a tonearm that does not performs as the 66, as a fact I still have the 64 that I use it when I have to remember how thigs won't/can't sounds.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.
Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas
13,101 posts
 
ET still rides in the " air ", right?

R.
ct0517's avatar
ct0517
2,041 posts
 
Rauliruegas
ET still rides in the " air ", right?


Raul this is not correct. To ride implies to sit on and control movement like someone on a motorcycle. An example of this could be the Transfi Terminator tonearm. In forum talks with Dave G, I believe it rides on a type of sled. I remember this comment from him on my system thread because it reminded me of my ski doo racing. Maybe Dave or one of the other owners can talk to that tonearm.

The ET 2.5 is a captured bearing and the air bearing spindle is completed enclosed by air at all times inside the large stationary manifold. The differences between air bearing designs are huge even though they can look similar and for this reason one can not make general statements about them. For example. Consider Kuzma Airline which came after the ET 2.0 was introduced.

See this pic.

https://goo.gl/photos/cNxKtgbTLamJ6WR96

Similarities are obvious to the ET tonearm however look carefully at the red circles.
The Kuzma (left) needs the air tube and wiring to keep the armtube in check as a form of damping.
Would not advise using a high compliance, lower vtf tracker cartridge on it.
The ET on the other hand is friction less, like a free bird, The ET tonearm does not need its wiring, and the air tube is connected on the stationary manifold casing.
But that damn cartridge needs the wiring. So with the ET 2.0 and 2.5, for long time advanced owner setups, it is like trying to learn how to best walk a bird. Do you know why the ET2 thread has over 1.2 million views. Good Bird Walking Stories....

The best way to set up the ET is without the wiring **FIRST**. Then add in the wiring. Some people have come up with some really cool wiring arrangements. Factory basic setups were meant to sell tables/arms and had the wiring go through manifold down into the plinth for simplicity.
This is discussed in the manual and is a sub par setup. Even Bruce does not run his own arm this way. You can run a Sonus Blue 50cms/dyne x 10-6 1 gm, or a low compliance heavy MC on both the ET 2.0, 2.5. But the ET 2.0 or 2.5 tonearm needs to be setup differently for both. Different armtubes, and in advanced setups that no professional reviewers ever got to Single, double and triple leaf springs with good knowledge of the weights placement. This knowledge can only come with time, learning and experience.

btw - I happened to see your post this morning before AudioGon removed it.
don_c55
1,025 posts
 
Here is what you should know as basis for an arm decision
Absolute “must have” mechanical adjustments for a SOTA arm!

1) Micrometer arm height adjustment that has index marks for VTA/SRA. Index marks are needed to ‘fine tune”, and go back to a previous setting, when the last setting was better.
2) Fine azimuth adjustment with index marks. Azimuth is as important as VTA/SRA, for sound quality.
3) Internally damped arm tube, and adjustable external fluid arm damping.
4) Anti-skate adjustment, including no anti-skate option.
5) Fine tracking force adjustment with index marks. For ease of adjustment, azimuth setting should not need to be reset when tracking force is changed.
6) Adjustable head shell cartridge position (arm pivot-to-spindle distance,and stylus contact angle) for desired horizontal alignment. Straight non-pivot arms also need proper cartridge alignment (if off, they will be off through out the entire record). They also may have equal left-right channel sidewall force issues as the arm moves across the record, depending on the type of arm movement mechanism, IMO.


Tuning the arm by ear is “subjective”! Set for the listener’s sonic taste, as to what playback sounds best!


Electronic amplification, and the cartridge, must be “settled in” (warmed up) before adjustments are made. Play a few Lps before “fine tuning” any adjustments. Keep the stylus clean.

Incremental, “very fine” adjustments, over long term listening, with many Lps is necessary.

The optimum setting is always within a very small “window”.

Certain settings affect, other settings, that may need to be re-adjusted.

Listen for sonic changes as you make incremental adjustments, back and forth, as “clues” for the best setting.

Optimal setting are not for one record, but for the “mean” of all your Lps IMO.

Stylus mounting position may be slightly off (even on the most expensive cartridge), and this needs to be taken into account.

Adjustment for each Lp is “madness’, time consuming, and interrupts the enjoyment of repeated playing during long listening sessions IMO.

When all adjustments are complete 80% of your Lps will sound at their best, the remainder very good IMO. I throw away bad recordings, why waste time listening to crap?

Not every record is well recorded, or will sound great, even with the arm properly set up.

Cartridge suspension break-in and settling over time, and stylus wear, requires arm re-adjustment.

Resistor loading, arm cables, and step-up transformer, gain and impedance (if used), are also big factors in getting best sonics.

Some VPI arms, Graham, and most all TriPlanar arms meet these requirements.

SME arms and many other arms do not, and are not SOTA IMO.

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