2. amps-preamps
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Upgrade my Sonic Frontiers Line-2, or buy a used solid state Pre?

I bought a pair of Revel M106 speakers to replace some ancient active speakers. I plan on buying a used Pass Labs XA30.5 amp to drive them. FYI, I also have a Velodyne F1200 sub. 

Maybe I'm jumping the gun here, but I suspect the 16 year old Line-2 won't equal the amp or the speakers in terms of resolving power. For $1000, I can have Parts Connexion upgrade my Line-2 to the latest components, which according to Chris Johnson, would yield significant improvements. 

My question is, are there any used solid state preamps that would sound better than the upgraded Sonic Frontiers Line-2 for around $2500?

My other question is, does anyone have an idea how the Line-2 SE Plus would compare to the current crop of products out there, tube or SS? Is it worse or better than a Halo JC2, Pass XP-10, Peachtree Grand Pre X-1?
 
sboje
adg101
1,062 posts
 
Very Happy with the EH tubes I run in my ModWright. I use EH tubes from Cryoset Certified and have been very pleased with them. 

I recently picked up a set of Daedalus DiDs Isolation Devices which I can't speak highly enough about. Took them over to my Dads system to throw under his Line-1 and it made a huge improvement on his pre as well; really opened it up. 

The SF Line series of preamps are more solid state sounding than an older ARC and CJ tube pre's I agree but not dry. You throw in the right tubes and it's another story. My LS36.5 is a killer preamp but it's not a big fat tube sound either, but I'll throw it up against much more expensive SS preamps any day. Obviously we all have our own opinion on what sounds right.

You already own the SF. I wouldn't give up too soon on it. I have a Pass amp as well and I think you throw on a nice power cord and some DiDs under your Line 2 you'll be amazed. For the money WyWires Silver Juice II is great; it's a very open, transparent PC Get the amp first and play around with your Line 2. 

Good luck

jmcgrogan2's avatar
jmcgrogan2
6,346 posts
 
adg101, I’ll throw my VAC amp up against much more expensive SS amps any day. You don’t have to sell me on tube gear, I’m using tube phono, tube preamp and tube amplifier. So yes, I love tubes.

That said, there are some decent SS amps out there, and even some decent SS preamps. Not all tube products are better than all SS products.

You are right, that we all have our own opinions, and in the end, the only opinion that counts is the one of the person spending the money.

Unless you have ever heard a Klyne preamp or phono stage, I would not dismiss them so quickly. That would be as big of a mistake as dismissing a Pass amplifier because it doesn’t have tubes, IMHO.

@jafant , you can search Klyne. Very small, steady manufacturer, whose owners are incredibly loyal, and for good reason. I know more than a few tubeophiles who have converted happily to Klyne preamps.
Yes, preamps is all Stan Klyne makes, and he’s been at it for over 35 years. No digital, no amplifiers, only line preamps and phono preamps. His 7PX5.0 phono stage was the best phono that I have owned, bar none, and I’ve owned $10K tube phono stages.
knghifi
1,668 posts
 
I had SF SFL-1 (my 1st tube preamp), SFL-2, Line 3 and Power 3.  With my favorite NOS Philip Holland / Amperex 6922.  it's not dry or sterile. 

I had the Line 3 and Power 3 upgraded to SE+ by PCX.   It's an improvement over stock but not worth the $$.  

In the Line 2 + upgrade price range, checkout an used EAR 868, Audio Valve Eklipse and ModWright.
jmcgrogan2's avatar
jmcgrogan2
6,346 posts
 
@knghifi , I'll just agree to disagree on the "dry and sterile" comment.

As for you recommendations, while they may be very good preamps, I don't believe that any of them are solid state preamps, which is what the OP specifically stated he was looking for.
adg101
1,062 posts
 

No disrespect to Klyne Audio. That was not my intention on my earlier post. I've not heard their preamps but over the years I have read many great things about them. I'm sure they make a great product. What I was trying to imply is the SF Line-2 is no slouch. I am fortunate enough that we have two really nice local shops that have been around a long time; one a relative of mine owns and one I worked part time at years ago. Both stores let me take gear home all the time and that has been great for me to educate myself and train my ears. Between the two stores they have sold most known brands including the former Sonic Frontiers, Pass Labs and Revel so I know this gear well. Lived with a Sonic Frontiers pre previously and have a Pass amp, so I know this product well... very well.

Back to your original post... Your Line-2 is more than in the league with your Revel M106's. Careful I am not saying the M106 is not a nice speaker because it is, but I have heard the Line-2 on bigger Magnepans, Thiels, and Vandersteens with Levinson, Classe, Sonic Frontiers and Conrad Johnson amps so I know it can hold its own even today. The Line-1 is a very nice preamp as well  and I have heard it on the same speakers including Dunlavys, and ProAcs; my father has ProAcs and his Line-1 is more than adequate with his ProAcs and ARC tube amp.

Is the Line-2 in the same league as a Pass XA30.5? Well I would say again it will hold it's own just fine but Yes the Pass is the better piece; anyone who argues that is being silly maybe. If you tweak your Line-2 a little as I mentioned in my earlier post you will hear the benefits through the Pass. Also if you are getting the XA30.5 or any Pass amp you are wasting your money if you don't run it balanced so no matter what you do with your Line-2 or get another preamp because you have the bug to upgrade I would strongly inform you to use a balanced preamp regardless if it SS or a Tube design. Likewise if you are not using balanced cables on your Line-2 now you should be because it will sound more open; it's not something you have to really concentrate on to hear - it will be obvious with decent cables. I agree with someone above the cost of sending it in for an upgrade may not yield much of an improvement but other tweaks will.

I would recommend to make sure the rest of your system is up to your Line-2. What is your source components, cables, and etc.? If you don't have dedicated circuits to your equipment I would do that as the Pass will not come to it's potential it has to offer; my Pass was thin sounding until I ran dedicated lines. If you can't run dedicated lines I would still change out your receptacles to at least some nice Hubbells. Maybe you have done all this, but if you haven't you haven't heard what your Line-2 can do or the rest of your system. Give your Line-2 a chance on the XA30.5 before you ditch it. Only downside I do have with any tube preamp or any tube equipment is tubes go bad and there is a cost maintaining them.


I wholeheartedly agree both SS and Tube camps offer great equipment; both can be great. I believe its all about synergy as one piece might work great on one system but not another.   Good Luck.

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