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What used speaker would you buy with $20,000-$35,000 and why?

I'm closer to the 20,000 part, but if I get stretched i would like to know higher recommendations. Remember, this is on the used market - not retail. I'm even interested if you think I should make a huge jump (say to 50,000), but I want to know what justifies that jump. I'd like the best bang for the buck and even the worse bang for the buck. Are there speaker lines that are totally overlooked that sound wonderful in this price range that I need to be exposed to? I may go higher, but lets start there.

PS Let's just assume the upstream equipment is adequate to drive any recommended speaker. We are not limited by upstream components.
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ctsooner's avatar
ctsooner
2,480 posts
 
Marty, honest question if I may.  I was speaking with a friend two weeks ago about an MBL amp.  The more we spoke I started to remember an MBL dealer telling me that the MBL's really need their own amplification in order to sound their best.  Do you know if this is true?  They are very intriguing speakers for sure.
martykl
3,578 posts
 
Ctsooner,

That's a very tough question to answer. My understanding is that the 101 is power hungry and a tough load.  MBL says that MBL amplification is uniquely well suited to the speakers' demands.  (What else would you expect them to say, they're trying to sell MBL amps.)

I've heard the 101s at three different locations:

A stereophile show, where they were demoed by MBL
An MBL dealer in SoCal
A second MBL dealer in SoCal

The latter two were full line dealers who also carried MBL amps, preamps, CDPs, etc.. Guess what: all of those Demos featured MBL electronics throughout.  What a surprise!  The demos all sounded great (in many respects) so the chain certainly was appropriate.  However, it's also entirely possible that dozens of other brands might sound as good or better.  

I have no clue how other brands mate up, and I suspect that it may be tough to arrange a demo to check this idea out.  It's just not in anyone's interest (except the consumer), so I'm not sure that you can ever expect to make such an audition happen.  It's still worth a shot if you're thinking about an MBL speaker purchase, however.  Maybe you could haul your power amps to the local MBL dealer when auditioning MBL speakers, but given the weight of many high output power amps, that's probably going to be a chore.  (Hey, one more argument for class D)!

The MBL amps appear to be quality pieces, but cheap they ain't!  So, if you're up for the effort, you might want to try this one out and let all of us know how it went. I guess I'm just too old, tired, and lazy to be of help, here.  Sorry
ctsooner's avatar
ctsooner
2,480 posts
 
Great answer and what I probably expected.  I have a friend who owns Vandersteen 7 mkIIs and has other great gear to go along.  He auditioned or was about to, the MBL mono blocks.  He was going to get a good deal I'm sure, but I just felt that other amps with zero feedback would work better with the Vandy's. He ended passing and is going with the Ayre MRX Twenty, which is a GREAT mate.  Again, it's all about synergy with components and we all get lost there sometimes.  Thanks
bdp24's avatar
bdp24
9,949 posts
 

For anyone liking the Linkwitz speakers, but wanting either planars instead, or a system with less complexity and channels of amplification, here is an alternative:

The coolest part of the Linkwitz’s are their Open Baffle/Dipole woofers. The other drivers are just run-of-the-mill cones on an OB baffle, nothing special. They create a point source, not a line source as do planars. If you prefer point source, that’s great. But you need three stereo power amps for the upper drivers, plus one for the woofers!

Another way to go is to get open baffle sound for the mids and highs from a planar of your choice (electrostatic, magnetic-planar, ribbon), which will also give you a line source if that is your preference. For the bass, nothing beats the design found in the Linkwitz, an OB/Dipole. Gradient offered a similar woofer for the QUAD ESL63 in the 80’s. There just happens to be a sub/woofer available that is similar but superior to both the Linkwitz and Gradient---the GR Research/Rythmik Direct Servo Feedback OB/Dipole Subwoofer.

The woofer system is available from both GR Research and Rythmik as a kit (the Linkwitz are also offered as kits only) for around $1500/pr. Included are two 12" woofers optimized for OB use, and a plate amp/cross-over with a shelving circuit installed to counteract the acoustic low-end roll-off endemic to OB designs. Plans for the OB/Dipole "H-frames" into which the woofers are installed are available for viewing on the GR website.

The system produces extremely good bass (up to 300Hz) not only because of it’s OB/Dipole design (the Linkwitz do as well), but because of the Rythmik servo-feedback design between the plate amp and drivers. For the frames, you can make your own from the plans, or buy a $500 flat pack that is being made by a woodworker who is a GR Research AudioCircle Forum regular. The frames are very easy to assemble (not much more difficult than an Ikea bookcase), requiring only wood glue and clamps. I'm sure a cabinet shop will put them together for you for an hour or two of labor. He makes the H-frames from the plans, using 1.5" MDF for the side panels/top/bottom, and 1.0" for the baffle and braces! Far superior (less resonant, stiffer) to the H-frame of the Linkwitz. Check them out!

ctsooner's avatar
ctsooner
2,480 posts
 
This seems like a DIY forum.  Very few folks here seem to want to build their own or have to buy three amps just to power a two channel system.  I'm not putting them down, but just like we've pointe out in other threads the cost of your system goes through the roof supplying top amplification for them.  

Example:  I have a pair of Vandersteen Treo's.  They were in the price range at the time (8K).  I also own an Ayre AX5/20 integrated amp (cost 13K)  

If I had to run the Treo's with three channels of amplification, I'd have to get amps that sound as good or better than what I'm using.  That would also mean getting rid of an integrated that I love.  I'd have to sell my integrated for a loss. Then it's off to get three Ayre mono block amps (yes, I like the zero feedback Ayre amps a ton).  Not even sure how much they would be, but then I'd also have to get matching speaker cables and that's another 2500 per channel (but since I already have an 8' run, I'd only need two more runs for a total of 5k).

The argument  that I could just run an NAD or Rotel or some other lesser amp is wrong since that would completely degrade the sound even if those amps were running world class speakers.  Same with lowering the cables (although not nearly as much degradation as the amps being lowered).  

At some point practicality has to come into play too.  I haven' heard these Linkwitz so I can't say that I like or dislike them.  I do want to give them a go one of these days. Just my opinion (and I'm not the only one as a few folks have emailed me about this thread and another one questioning the DIY thing as well as tri amping) and I'm not trying to say that I'm right and you are wrong, so try and read it in that vein.  Thanks.
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