Subwoofer

My subs are very well integrated into my system, the room treatments have quelled the spurious room resonances that detracted from the bass, and the system sounds great.

So last night I fired up the system with the pre-amp output to the subs turned off, the system sounded great that way, then I turned the pre-amp output to the subs on and it was like the "Wizard of Oz", when Dorothy approached the kingdom and the film suddenly was in color!

Bass blossoms all around, it submerges you, yet not to overwhelm. In turn it highlights contrasting frequencies. That I believe is what gives a greater sense of depth and realism to the sound stage. 

Thank you for this.  This is probably the best explanation yet I have heard on why a sub seems to improve overall experience.  

In the past I have sold many Rel subwoofers. For surround I liked them, but for stereo use they were too slow. Because when we did tests in response and timing it was easy to find the limitations. For a perfectionist they are never acceptable.

In the last few years I have auditioned the latest Rel subwoofers as well, they are still not fast in response enough.

Material use is essential for the best response. You should use light and fast materials. Like ceramics and aluminium. That is why I don’t understand why they use the material they use. For Velodyne the same story.

The Velodyne subwoofers were the first which I auditioned who could create a sound without problems with the acoustics of the room.

This was an important part what was not that good in the past.

But still you had other limitations, these limitations were:

- Not a perfect integration with the speakers. It often felt if instruments and voices became more blurry and less focussed during shootout.

I have done a lot of research in room acoustic measurment and I also created a different way to measure a subwoofer. With results were we could only dream of 10 years ago.

At the end it is all about timing. First of all you need subwoofers with a response fast as a rocket. Second you need a professional room acoustic measurement system. And you need the best profesional lasers you can get. And you need to understand music.

This last part is forgotten in audio many times. This had become a serious problem. When you ask simple questions to people who give an audio demo and they don’t know anything about music. Audio becomes useless.

A new approach of measurment, professional microphone and professional lasers has created Stealth Low frequency.

It fully integrates with the speakers. But the main difference is that the energy of instruments is exactly were it the energy should be. When I give  a demo you see their reaction that it cannot be possible. Even when the subwoofer is over 3 metres away from the energy.

The funny thing is that years ago people here at audiogon told me that I a am a liar. The people who auditoned it I have told this story often.

They had to laugh and said: I understand their reaction, because they never auditioned it themselves. For me and my clients it has become quite normal.

And yesss stereo with a subwoofer always will win from any speaker set without a subwoofer. Even when you use a speakerset of 500.000 dollar with starts at below 16hz it will not win.

Because when you use stealth low frequency each part you judge sound for gets better. And even at low volume you can create a much more realistic low freq. Because even a speakerset of 500.000 dollar needs to be played at extreme volumes before they can reach 16hz.

I never thought that I would sell stereo with subwoofers. Now in 2016 over 80% of all my stereo clients use a subwoofer.

When we visit shows ( even Highend Munic) often demos with subwoofers are so limited. Because most don’t understand music and audio.

Does this thread mean we're not far from subwoofers moving from the "Home Theater" category and into the "Speaker" Category here on Audiogon?  ;-)

Regarding how "fast" a sub woofer responds. I do not buy into many of those points. I believe it has more to do with driver motor assembly and the amplifiers dampening factor than cone material and overall weight. I often prefer paper and infused paper for its tonal qualities, never much considered its weight. But have had subs that employ poly and aluminum cone materials that did very well at reproducing natural tones and textures. I never detected any being inferior in terms of pace.

There are way too many factors at play, more than I care to try listing. To sync the subs to every set of mains would be major a feat in itself I would imagine. I would bet most if not all to be off if even by a millisecond or two. Such a minute difference that you wont be able to detect any difference without the use of the multi thousand dollar measuring devices anyway.