2. speakers
  3. 123713-126

Subwoofer

A couple of days ago I was talking to a dealer and he said that all speakers benefit from adding a subwoofer. What's are your thoughts? 
ricred1
bo1972's avatar
bo1972
2,789 posts
 
I auditioned the DD18 a few years ago. The thing I liked was the integration in the room without any acoustic problems.

But the instruments and voices became less focussed and bigger in proportion. We switched between on and off. That is why you need a room acoustic system what measures both speakers and subwoofer togheter. And not separated.

Audio is testing and comparing. I started to test in 1998 to know all the different properties of each part of an audio set.

Today a client of mine phoned me. He auditioned a surroundset with the new Platinum series II from Monitor Audio.

This set was with the Pl-300, Pl-100, PL-centre and PLW215 subwoofer. Also here the subwoofer was measurend with the room calibration system of the subwoofer. They were not able to let the subwoofer play above 40hz.  Because the control was gone.

These days all subwoofer go till 120hz. The only reason I am able  to  create this is because I can measure the subwoofer very accurate. They become one with the speakers. This is a huge advantage. Using lasers makes it even more precise.

This is amature level in audio,  and this is common these days. Beside this it does not integrate like Stealth Low Frequency. 

Velodyne needs a better response. Last year a client of mine visit me. He also owns the DD18. I told him what Stealth low frequency means and does.

After the demo his words were: This is the level of integration what I would wish. This is a different level compared to my Velodyne. He understood that the difference in timing and speed  is huge.

I use shootouts and testing to find the best products and create the best sound possible. Audio is understanding music and second you need to find out which properties each part owns.
audiokinesis
2,747 posts
 

bo1972, there is nothing wrong with making experimental observations as you do, but in my opinion one critical element seems to be lacking: A strong background in acoustics and psychoacoustics.

The human mind loves to have explanations for what it observes in the world around it. If we do not have enough correct information in our mental database, we will manufacture explanations using what limited information we do have. So we may conclude that this subwoofer sounds faster than that one because of cone material or woofer diameter, and once this has become one of our core beliefs, our mind selectively interprets our experiences to preserve and reinforce that belief. We confuse correlation with causation and come up with erroneous "laws".  And we humans do not like to have our beliefs challenged because we identify with them. We love to "be right" and we hate to "be wrong" (see, even the wording equates our self with our belief, which is a mistake). Our highest allegiance should always be to the truth, not to a favorite theory.

In my opinion it is the responsibility of those of us who claim to be professionals in this field to acquire a professional level of expertise. That doesn’t necessarily mean we need a college degree in the subject, but it does mean that we should at least read and study for our niche as much as a serious college student would.

I suggest starting out with Dr. Floyd Toole’s "Sound Reproduction: The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms", which has chapters devoted to the stuff this thread is about. Don’t stop there, but at least start there, and then look in the bibliography for further reading in areas of interest. I also recommend Geddes, Everest, and Blauert.

The advantage of going to so much effort is this: Now when we make an observation, our minds will be able to draw from valid scientific theories and explanations stored in our mental database, instead of having to manufacture its own explanation from very limited information.

Imo, ime, ymmv, etc.

Duke

rwwear
2,873 posts
 
A sub may go to 120hz but is not usually a good idea to have one crossed over so high.
bo1972's avatar
bo1972
2,789 posts
 
That were my first thoughts as well, but I test and compare. At the end the best results count. I have proven that it can bring subwoofers to a much higher level compared to the old fashion way of using it till 40-80hz.

Most subwoofers are too slow to be used this far and second you need a professional system to make the subwoofer one with the speakers.

At the end it is possible and brings it to a new level of integration.

A few years ago I demoed Stealth Low freqency to a surround specialist. He never auditioned something like this and he said: I think you have gold in your hands with this.

What you hear and perceive counts. I never thought that I would sell stereo with a subwoofer to be honest. Till 2008 I hated subwoofers for stereo use.

All the tests I made with Statement Audio Pro measurment did change my thoughts completely.

You need to look further to create new levels of quality in sound.

I have had many discussions with technical people who developed the best highend products. But when I asked them about the properties of the products they use at their shows they could not answer.

So I said; then you don’t understand how the sound and stage is being build what you listen at? They become totally silent. They were not able to answer the question.

I test each part/tool ( amp, cable, speaker, source, condtioner etc.) to find out which properties it owns. I work and think by Total Sound. This contains 8 parts you judge sound for.

This way you much better can control audio and adapt it like you want it. Because you understand why the sound and stage is what you hear.

Another benefit is that you are able to use all the properties a speaker owns. I have proven that I can let people hear that they are missing parts in their set. Thye miss parts of Tru-Fi. All these parts influence our emotion.

When you create an audio set with all the different parts you judge sound for, it will be more complete. People are more exited and feel more emotion during listening.




bo1972's avatar
bo1972
2,789 posts
 
The acoustics of a room limits the quality of an audio set te most. I can garantee you that most people loose a big part of the quality their system could give in a better acoustic room.

It doens’t matter how expensive the audio system is, the room has a huge influence on the end results. So here you can win the most to create a better end result.

That is why I have done hundreds of tests in the last 6 years regarding the acoustics of a room. I have improved it over and over again. It never stops, because a perfectionist goes on and on....

Over time you have new ideas and they bring it to an even higher level. This is what I love about audio as well. Testing and shootouts is like an addiction for me. It doesn't cost me energy, because audio is like a second nature for me.

How I hear music and instruments in real, I want an audio system to sound like. It is in my head and I create it by colleting properties of all the different parts. It is like a puzzle. You combine different pieces togheter to listen what it does. When you have done this like me thousands of times, you see patterns. They make you understand why the stage and sound is what you hear.

In 2005 I had ideas how a subwoofer should integrate, but at that time I thought it was not possible. But now in 2016 it has become possible.

Time and technique go on and they give us much more tools to create a higher level of realism in sound.
More to discover