What makes an expensive speaker expensive

Marty, great response, thanks.  I assumed that it was something like that where you felt it did somethings you LOVED.  It's all about the emotion to me also.  That's what the Vandersteen line does for me and why I keep listening for other speakers to beat them and they just don't.  It's funny as I was reading John Atkinson's review on www.stereophile.com on the Vandersteen 7 mk2 along with Vandersteen's new high pass amp that matches.  He said that even at that price they give you more than you expect, but that he has to go back to listening to systems he can afford, but hated to give them up.  Kind of sums up all of audio for 99% of us.  We are fortunate to find manufacturers who know what trade offs they can go with at the various price points.  For me it's Vandersteen and nothing that my older systems have done can come close to bringing me into the music and for once I can finally just sit and listen all day and not realize how much time has passed.  I have always loved listening, but it hasn't been like this since I first started with my first system (although even at 9 yo, I was upgrading that system within the month).  It's what we do and why we post on forums with strangers and meet new friends while doing it.  

Meer, that's dead on IRT Canadian companies.  That's why I respect so many of the other brands for doing what they've done without all of that free R&D help.  just shows what great minds are into audio.

The hi-fi market is broken; its broken because its niche. It should not have to be so entwined in the hi-end; but it is. I deal with it because it’s important to me; but its a bit ridiculous.

Imagine if jeans weren’t popular. (Unreal, I know, but remember we live in a world where good sound isn’t popular--you can do this.). Let’s say you wanted a good pair, but all you could find at your local Target (or competitors) were cheap, thin & made in a sweatshop (see, this isn’t difficult to imagine at all). They’re available in the two shades of blue & all the three sizes (S,M,L). You’d quickly realize the best there might rip if you eat an extra slice or two of cake--and still not fit right if you don’t.

So maybe you go to Macy’s (Nordstrom’s, whatever) only to find they haven’t carried jeans since the 80s.

Still, there’s probably an Old Navy not too far away. In larger towns you know they even have a dedicated room inside called "The Gap" but your area is not so lucky. You do find a pair that aren’t really that uncomfortable as long as you don’t have to wear them for very long--but why do they have so many pockets! You’re certain--jeans have to get better than this.

So you find a specialty boutique, and upon entering are confronted by products in every shade & size--many of them bedazzled & wildly stitched. Look, there’s Gucci. You’ve heard of them before & surreptitiously glance at the price--$5k for the pair. With a frown you wonder if the buttons are really gold. Thankfully a friendly & perceptive sales person greets you.

"Over here we have a pair just your size, hand-stitched in Japan with raw denim using a pure silver needle; no one else does anything like that for under $1k." He holds them up to you, but can tell you’re immediately underwhelmed, so explains, "Capri’s allow the manufacturer to focus on the quality of the seams & details; they also fit better in small dressers. These matching sandals keep your ankle at the appropriate angle."

Undeterred, you ask "Do you have any Levi’s?" your grandfather had a pair that seemed to last for years. "Calvin Klein?" recalling those being popular in the 80s. Still smiling, he guides you towards another rack. "These are from Guess. They’ve been designed in America since 1981." He pulls on the sides. "Though some prefer all-cotton, the 2% spandex design allows a thinner weave to stretch without fatigue. And this exclusive 144 tooth silver-plated zipper still provides ample airiness & sparkle--without ever having to worry about replacing a button."

The price tag dangles: $399. You can never let any of your friends know you paid that much for a pair of jeans. Still they don’t really draw attention to themselves. Probably no one will even ask--and you wonder, why doesn’t anyone one care about jeans anymore. Perhaps, if these fit, you’ll go home and find an online group that will accept you--after all, there’s one for every fetish these days.

Once glance from you at the fitting room is all it takes for the sales person to say, "Great, now try them out with this Diana Krall t-shirt on!"

Kirk

P.S. Belts matter. Don’t worry about the theories of braided vs solid straps of leather; copper vs silver buckles--only ever trust your waist.

gnostalgick "The hi-fi market is broken; its broken because its niche ..."


The hi-fi market doesn't seem broken to me at all, and it's been pretty much a niche market all along. I'm not sure why you think it should be otherwise. Merchandise is widely manufactured, sold, re-sold and traded at prices set by the market. Why does that trouble you?

a) money
b) name
c) advertisement
d) all of the above

The hi-fi market doesn't seem broken to me at all, and it's been pretty much a niche market all along. I'm not sure why you think it should be otherwise... Why does that trouble you?

I wasn't expecting a serious question to my satirical story.  I ran with it simply in hopes someone else would also be amused.  The jeans analogy is way too silly to really make a point, but car analogies are quite popular--so I'll try again, same idea, different angle, no attempts at humor.

   Many years ago, when shopping for a slightly sporty but mostly cheap & fuel efficient car, no one at the dealership--or even online--suggested I test drive a Ferrari so I could understand what driving was really like. There weren't even Ferraris in the lot to test drive, simply slightly nicer, newer Hondas.

  Shopping for stereo at anywhere other than BB, you're presented with those Ferraris in person, and as an ideal to aspire to, if not attain. After all things aren't that bad once you've saved up for the Boxter. Perhaps I'm just too cynical to realize that people are just being friendly, sharing their passion, realizing I'll likely never get to experience the same at home. Regardless, the marketing in hi-fi certainly reinforces the idea that you're not getting truly close to the recording without a serious investment. Perhaps I'm too gullible that way.

  In real life Hondas & Toyotas are exceedingly common and well-regarded.  But what would be the audio equivalent of a Honda? Bryston maybe? No one I know in has anything like that--they have the stereo equivalents of old beat up Yugos, SmartCars, scooters & bicycles. Perhaps I need better friends.

  I don't begrudge the well off; but outside of this hobby I don't exactly mingle in the same circles. Perhaps I'm just too socially isolated--yet I've never found the need to go to an exclusive restaurant just get a better burger than McDonald's.  

  Conversely, I do remember a time, when I tip-toed past $1000 bottles of wine to the sad back aisle of an upscale wine shop just to get something better than a Budweiser. Now, thankfully, its not difficult at all to find a good craft beer.

   I think that's it: I'm troubled because I feel like there could be more of a market. Yes, the audiophilia merry-go-round of gear changing will always be niche; old-fashioned room-filling multi-component monolith based systems will always be niche.  But does that really mean an investment in a good stereo has to also be niche?

  If properly priced (complete system under $10k) & marketed (think Beats/Tidal) couldn't something along the lines of the wireless Goldmund speakers or the Avant-Garde Zeros be successful? They're both a bit more, of course, but with a few tweaks & enough sales, the profit would be there. Or perhaps something like a Spatial M3S with built-in dac/amp, optimized for corner placement like an AudioNote for under $5k (maybe not exactly possible as open baffle, but hopefully you get the idea--I'm just trying to stick with products I've recently heard).  

  But almost no one is designing products at that level of quality & refinement with the accessibility required for a new audience (though Devialet comes to mind). That's what keeps it niche.* And the lack of mainstream adoption of anything related to good stereo sound is what keeps the pricing--if not broken--too often far too inflated. At least for me.

Kirk

*Not the only thing of course.