Lyra Atlas experiences

Dear bpolleti: Are you seriously?, I took Herron as an example and with all respect to you: if you can't hear a difference between a MC circuit with a gain input FET stage and other with out it then something is wrong down there:

- low system resolution,
- analog rig not up to the task,
- non adequated and full proved evaluation whole system test process,
- non educated ears or not know what to look for.

Btw, the higher ( against SS designs. )  output impedance on tube units or hybrids like your Herron gives a higher degradation to the signal that goes to the external line stage and if this is a tube unit then same happens when the signal goes out to the amps.

bpolleti, the Herron in not here under scrutiny ( I'm not criticize the Herron. ), main subject is way different. Stay calm and try to understand the main overall subject.

Just curiosity because tha's not the subject here and could be useless: how do you made the precise two diferent stages evaluation to say both performs the same?. Again, just curiosity and you can email me about if don't want it here and don't want to open another discussion " window ".

regards and enjoy the music,
R.

Raul -

I have nothing to hide in private emails that can't be said in this thread.  I have made my comments public regarding my opinion of Herron Audion equipment.  Those views haven't changed.  When you're going to retract your comments, then it should be made on the forum, not hidden in private email. 

The evaluation was easy. Use the same cartridge into both inputs (the MC input is loaded with 47K ohms) adjusting the preamp level to account for the differences in gain.  

You stated that the Herron Audio phono stage uses a FET section that has a distinct sonic signature and uses downstream tubes to overcome that signature.  But there are no tubes in the actual phono stage itself, just the MC front-end. 

Of all the owners and reviewers discussing the Herron VTPH-2 I've encountered and/or whose comments I have read, none have ever claimed to have heard a sonic signature associated with the FET MC front end.  To the contrary, I can't recall any that have claimed the unit had a signature at all. 

But you must be right.  Thank you for pointing out our failures and shortcomings. 

Dear bpolleti: In the very first page of Herron site of the  model you own you can read this:

"""  "The Herron VTPH-2 gives listeners all the benefits of a tube unit with few of the failings and a text-book technical performance to boot. It offers a level of vacuum-tube engineering (carefully combined with solid-state circuitry) that's rare at any price, unheard of at this one." 
- Roy Gregory hifi+ issue 58  """

the input gain stage ( where the cartridge signal is " touched " for the very first time in the Herron. ) is a FET  ( SS ) gain cicuit and from there amplified signal goes to all the tubes on the Herron design.

In that same Herron site page you can read this:

"""  Tube complement(2 x 12AX7, 3 x 12AT7) - most popular, or
(4 x 12AX7, 1 x 12AT7)Gain MC Mode(2 X 12AX7, 3 X 12AT7) 64 dB 
(4 X 12AX7, 1 X 12AT7) 69 dBGain MM Mode(2 X 12AX7, 3 X 12AT7) 43 dB 
(4 X 12AX7, 1 X 12AT7) 48 dB   """

Enough.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

@bpoletti : Read this post, this gentleman owns the same PS as you. Check the date he posted and the first sentences about:

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/mc-cartridge-loading/post?postid=1353089#1353089


R.

raul - Well, raul, you're wrong.  The FET stage is used ONLY for MC amplification.  Period.  The MM stage is all tube.  The FET stage just raises the input to the level where the MM section can optimally handle the signal.  The different tube complements are used to balance signal level.  This information is available directly from Herron himself in conversations with the owners of his products. 
 
The cited post says nothing about any differences between the FET stage and the MM stage except that the listener preferred the sound of his cartridge using the "infinite loading" available on the VTPH-2 MC input.  That would be through the FET stage.

Oh, but I momentarily forgot you're always right.  And you already said I can't hear anyway.