Vandersteen Treo vs 3A Sig as upgrade

ig316b -

I'm with you.  I like the Treo but sadly no subs allowed in my room.  

Wlutke, if you can find a pair of used Quatro's I think you'd be in heaven for your Rock.  Even the other ones move a ton of air.  I personally only like the look of the wood versions, but I've heard the sock Quatro's set up with highest of end CJ with all the tweeks and top cabling and was blown away.  I've also heard them with NAD separates and an Ayre Codex DAC with basic Audioquest cable and it sounded incredible.  

To me, that's hard for most speakers to pull off.  You made a salient point to me on your moving air issue.  I'm totally on board after rereading your posts etc... I never thought we were that far off and I think I'm much closer to what you have posted about the movement of air deep down.  Some, like you, really need that in order to get 'moved' (pun intended).  I'm not quite like that as I need my music to give me everything else.  Hey, the Treo's go very low and move a bit of air when set up properly.  They are very satisfying to many and that's why the Quatro is out or those top subs he sells.  I want the Quatro for myself due to the tunable bass, but deep down (no pun), I want more air movement on the bass, but I hate most subs as I need tuneful bass that is articulate and homogenous with the main speakers.  I hear coherency in speakers more so than many do and that's what drives me nuts about so many manufacture's who make and market high end speakers.  So many are not coherent. Richard nails it and always has.  My Proacs were the same way years ago.  The newest Paradigm Ref speakers I got to hear last month on pre release were also pretty amazing, but they cost 7 or 8k more than the 5CT's and are not nearly as good.  

Folks can set their price range and figure out what's most important to them and see if they can fit it in.  I still feel that out of all the Vandersteen speakers ever made, that the Quatro is THE sweet spot in the line for price/performance.  JMHO

Ok guys, I'm no pro or scientist on the laws of physics, but I think we all pretty much agree that multiple pairs of large bass drivers will move significantly more air than small bass drivers. I believe much of what we hear in punchy rock/pop bass doesn't really go that low in frequency. Much of this type of bass is in the 40 to 80Hz range. A low "E" note on an electric bass guitar is approx. 42Hz. That's not extremely low in frequency, but heavily amped into a bank of large bass speakers will shake the rafters at a rock concert. Look at the drummer's kick drum. Most times you will see a microphone inside said kick drum. The heavily amped  "thud" of that drum is probably in the 50Hz range even though it feels strong enough to loosen the wax in your ears! It's all about perception. A Speaker like the Treo, properly placed inside say, a medium sized room will give you bass tones down in the low 30Hz range with natural, un-amplified instruments having the "politeness" that Wlutke describes. Simply put it just doesn't move the air in the mid bass that gives rock the slam and boogie that Wlutke likes even though the Treo is quite capable of going quite low in frequency. He is willing to give up some of that resolution for the impact and slam the 3A Sigs give him. I understand this because when I got into this hobby back in the early 70's, strong punchy bass on rock/pop is what attracted me. Another  "one box" speaker solution for Wlutke might be Legacy. They use multiple 10" to 15" bass drivers in a single cabinet. They also have outstanding resolution with the kind of air moving capabilities you crave. I have owned several pairs of them over 20+ years before I bought Vandersteen. Once again, and always, this is just my humble opinion.

A final follow up.  I've replaced the 3A's with a year old pair of perfect and beautiful rosewood lacquered Acoustic Zen Crescendo MKII's for half price (!).  Not a fair comparison but they destroy the 3A's and steamroller the Treos.  They've got that warm musical sound similar to Vandersteen so it was an easy transition.