Eminent Technology ET-2 Tonearm Owners

Hi Raul,

I trust that you and many others have heard the benefit of eliminating the low frequency signal to the main speakers. The YG Acoustics speakers that my friend has have separate powered woofer sections and also he uses JL Audio Gotham subs. Again, he relies on digital room equalization to make all of this complexity work together and well, according to his reports.

True, the RELs have no high-pass output as they were designed to do something different and that they do well IMO. What sub that you own or have heard has high-enough quality internal crossovers to do this well without introducing other compromises to the sound? I would prefer to handle the high pass/low pass filter this way vs modding the Thiels (which would also not relieve the low-frequency-reproduction challenge for my amplifiers). But then there is the additional long runs of low-level cabling needed to use a sub crossover solution...

Yesterday, I experimented with using my HT processor to alter the low-frequency hand-off between the Thiels and the RELs. Some promising results in the bass, but there was pervasive degradation to every other sound criteria as one would expect from this "mid fi" approach.

Since I cannot afford the latest and (maybe) better-than-what-I-have-now plug-and-play components, I find satisfaction in experimenting with carefully-chosen tweaks and acknowledged "better-than-they-could-possibly-be-for-the-price" components from the past.

Right now I am enjoying power supply upgrades to the SR cables/cords’ active shielding (great results for small $$) and, soon, SR Black fuses (due to arrive Friday). I just picked up a Sony 5400ES SACD/CD player that I may have ModWrighted with improved clock, separate dedicated PS, and tubed output. Claimed to be a "Giant Killer".

Begging the pardon of my ET Two friends (particularly Chris) for this shamefully non-related indulgence.

Thanks as always, Raul, for your contributions and advice,
Dave

Dear @dlcockrum : I know that the Krell amp is a powerful item but even that and even that works almost all tghe time looking 2 ohms impedance from the Thiels this means more distress and higher distortion that if the amp works at a little higher impedance. That distress could means too more " fatigue " for the amp power suply and output transistors. So, it's not only to think that the amp can make " easy " that work, there are side issues to look for and care.

My suggestion of that tefloncap/nude Vishay resistor at the amp inputs still is a good alternative and inside that first order Thiel filter design. As a fact is the kind of filter that makes less harm to the sound signal.

No one sub I know works in the high pass with first order filter design.

When we are talking of subwoofers for an stereo system dedicated to listen music there is one parameter of critical importance and this is the THD of the subwoofer and in this regards no one is even near the 0.5% of thwe sealed Velodynes thank's that its design monitoring the woofer excursions over 16K times per second to mantain that so lower THD. Nothing can beat it on quality performance. Otehr can go lower or sound more powerful but with loweer quality performance and its croosver design is a decent one.

I own the out of production HGS-15 but you can find out ( second hand ) the DD-15 ( newer model. ) that in my opinion performs better than the DD-18 or in my case HGS-18.

In the other side you can buy a top croosover to hadle the signal from your preamp to the Krell and to the RELs.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

The subwoofer phenomena is an interesting one, but logical IMO, as far as progression goes in this Audio business. There are not too many people that have dedicated rooms, that can place full range speakers on the room loading points. So manufacturers followed with subwoofer audiophile lines to meet this demand. It’s a good business model imo.

As we know with subwoofers you can place them in the general area of where you want them, then set when they are active, and amount of db level with the phase control you need. Still the person with the dedicated room will be able to go further down the rabbit hole if these bass modules can be placed on the room loading points to begin with.

The real issues I find with bass does not get much discussion on forums and it deals with the way the music has been engineered to begin with. Different genres of music and even different recordings within the same genre use different compression levels, engineering techniques. Different albums need different bass settings.

Now most people I know with subwoofers have a dial on the actual box/es that they use to set phase and db level, etc... In order to tailor the sound for different music the person needs to get up go to the sub/s and change them. This doesn’t work for me.

In my room B, I am using two Dynaudio BM12s subs that have a credit card sized remote that can be preset for A - B - C - D . Each letter represents different settings. When the music has been engineered with too much bass or too little, the levels are easily adjusted from the listening chair. Unless you can train your dog to change the levels while you listen; this works very well, for me anyway.

Raul - have you ever heard a system that had four bass modules in the room? I am not referring to four on the ground. But Two on the ground. Two up near the ceiling. Four in total facing the listener for two channel music.

Chris,

Another intelligent and insightful post. The path in the carpet to my subs is worn from countless trips to and from for adjustment or simply turning them on or off depending on the media. From recording to recording I find that the subs either augment or detract from my musical enjoyment and your posit on the variability of mastering decisions, which cannot be altered after the fact, is the best theory that I have read or heard to date. 

Additionally, having a dedicated room, I have the freedom to place the subs wherever I like, and have spent many hours trying to tune placement to best effect, yet periodically wonder if the sweet spot is yet to be discovered.

Is it worth it? Depends on one's level of OCD affliction, the subject room/system and, as you describe, the media itself.

Best,
Dave

Dear @ct0517 : I don't have a dedicated room. I took around one year to my subs position and levels be " just perfect ".

What means " just perfect "?, first that you can't identify where the subs sounds comes, everything ( overall system frequency range. ) comes from in between speakers and extended beyond but sounds emmanate from in between. Second you never need to change the SPL of the subs, simple stay with the final overall set up. If you need to change the subs set up with different LPs then your final set up is not yet final and needs more " work " to achieve that goal.

In my system its position is in front of the main speakers ( satellite ones. ) looking each to other sub not looking to the seat position but at right/left side: front to front. Are not directly seated in the floor/ground but around 40 cms. up and with 30 kg dead weigth in its top plate.

Yes I listened four subs in my system many years ago when I owned too: two Audio-Pro ( Sweden ones. ). As a fact the ideal way to add subs in any audio system is using four subs to eliminate any single standing room waves.

Remember subs main/primary premise is not to have deeper bass or " boom boom " but better quality overall system performance with lower distortions!.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.