Vinyl and subwoofers

golferboy
Just read about the KAB rumble filter. I had no idea this problem of pumping woofers was so common. I am still shaking my head. Why didn’t the experts who designed the audiophile skyscraper put in a button for the rumble-filter floor in all of the elevators serving the analogue section of the building.

8^)


https://forum.audiogon.com/search/index?utf8=%E2%9C%93&query=woofer+pumping+

316 search results on woofer pumping at AudioGon

I will hazard a guess that if your Thiel crossover was made when vinyl was prominent, and not a niche in this audio hobby, it would have made with a filtering system, or at least had that option to turn on, and prevent unwanted sub sonic frequencies. These sub sonic frequencies contribute to cone excursion and intermodulation distortion.

So, it does not have the option. I guess I can overlook the Thiel its 2016, but your ARC PH8 ? It is being used with these same Lp’s, same turntable, tonearm, cart designs that have not changed. This is not acceptable for ARC - imo. I assume it must have been a product budget issue for not including it.

Back in the day, 35 years ago...when I thought that putting a penny on a headshell might help get more music out of the grooves...I might have damaged more than a few records. If the sub was not there, the gravely sound would still be there, but easily overlooked without the sub. I’m going to recheck my turntable cartridge setup and look into a rumble filter, something I didn’t know existed.

I am actually surprised that this condition was not noticed with your Thiel 3.6. Curious what amp/s you are driving them with ?

golferboy

Just read about the KAB rumble filter. I had no idea this problem of pumping woofers was so common.

It's almost always a setup problem, not an inherent problem with LP playback. It's best remedied by correcting the setup, rather than by introducing a filter.

ct0517,
I've always noticed it with my 3.6s, in my idiocy though, I just thought it was part of playing records. I agree, the PH8 should include a filter, absolutely. Thiel also had the option of including one in its PX02 (passive crossover for the sub) and perhaps the sub, but those are more than 10 years old. Amp is a Classe CA-2200.
Cleeds,
I fine-tuned the Clearaudio table and cartridge setup with their vinyl for that purpose. If bad setup were the cause, that would mean I've had many cartridges on two tables over 10 years out of whack. Doesn't seem plausible...but who knows.

Cleeds
It’s almost always a setup problem, not an inherent problem with LP playback. It’s best remedied by correcting the setup, rather than by introducing a filter.

I agree with you but this has been my personal experience.

Recording venue noise (source lp)
Turntable rumble (setup issue)

So which is it? The money is on setup sure ......but here is the thing.

imo - anyone that is playing vinyl in a system that does justice to the bottom 2 octaves, and the gear sits on suspended wood floors...that in itself is a room setup issue /error. The person imo, will be doing all kinds of things - filters, isolation, damping, etc.... to overcome problems. This is just one example and does not refer to golferboy’s system...we have no room info?

At some point you need to start listening to the music again and a room sometimes just can not be changed. From friends in the past including myself at one point, I would say the majority, say every 3 / 5 people had systems on suspended floors.

Golferboy - it would probably help if you list 3-4 lps you are having issues with. Then the folks reading the thread can input their actual experiences.
Cheers

golferboy

I fine-tuned the Clearaudio table and cartridge setup with their vinyl for that purpose. If bad setup were the cause, that would mean I've had many cartridges on two tables over 10 years out of whack. Doesn't seem plausible...but who knows.

If you've always had this problem, then it's very likely you have a setup problem. Yes, what you have is a common problem but no, it's not inherent in LP playback. What kind of stand do you have your turntable on? What kind of floor supports the stand? What else are you doing to isolate the turntable system from the room?