Why pay so much for super high end?


Most speakers costing $50,000+ use Seas, Scan Speak or Accuton.

In DIY forums most speakers designed use bargain drivers and usually are only 2.0 designs not bookshelf or center speakers to complete a surround system.

I’d love to have a Scan Speak 11 speaker system for atmos with 3 way bookshelves, center and floorstanders.

Why aren’t the designs out there and why are you guys pissing away all your money.

Personally I won’t get an upgrade from my speakers unless it’s of this caliber and neither can I afford nor want to donate money to these thieves.

A 3rd party 11 speaker atmos scan Speak system would be nice but I’m not spending $250,000.

Why on earth aren’t there designs out there for this and why do you all piss away your money?

I don’t get why hi fi isn’t all DIY even honest factory direct companies mark up 300%.

Unless you pull in $1+ million a year and don’t have any time I don’t get it.

Are you guys lazy?

Someone easily could design a great crossover and cabinets for everyone and the days of paying over $3,500 for a pair of loud speakers if you got some time or know a friend who could build cabinets would be over. I know of people who could design cabinets that rival $100,000 speakers and cost less than 1% than that.  Someone with some experience could easily design a diamond, beryllium and soft dome and various versions for various tastes.

I don’t get it. Speakers are so simple.  Crossovers cabinets and drivers.

You guys just throw your money away I don’t understand it why?


funaudiofun
Vivid Audio has shaped their drivers which is perhaps more important then shaping the cabinets. The drivers are designed to allow the back waves to flow more freely past the magnet and spider towards the dampening. Looking at most drivers even on very expensive speakers it is easy to see that a large portion of those back waves are just going to bounce off the magnet and spider and fly back through the thinnest part of the cabinet, the very thin cone. There goes the clarity.

I’ve never heard Vivid Audio speakers, but would like to. They are compelling in light of how their sound is described, and are said to be very dynamic and resolved. Perhaps you could elaborate?

What you mention though with regard to the free flow of the back waves emitted by the drivers seems if not unimportant, then a curious highlight from anyone other than the manufacturer itself. I’m not saying this particular technical feat doesn’t matter, but what is it to us really to speculate into these issues when what most of us really do is being immersed in the totality of their reproduced sound? What I’m getting at is the effect of being lead on by claims that seek to explain this and that feat and its sonic importance, when we can only really assume its (ir-)relevance and should perhaps refrain from any further deduction. For example, many of us have been spoon-fed with the apparent importance of speakers being slender, that (multiple) smaller drivers are quicker, that certain diaphragm materials are desirable, that totally inert cabinets are a must, etc., and we then go on to label this off as the truth ourselves. Let’s not pretend to be oblivious to the business importance of brand distinction, the domestic (spouse-)demands for smaller size, the want for convenience and on and on, and how all of this is catered to to varying degrees by the manufacturer. It seems to me we’ve lost at least some, or even a vital part of reference outside of what the industry "dictates" or fashions, a reference that rests more solely within the listener.

It should be noted that heavy speakers boasting their size and weight actually work against physics in that heavier materials resonant at a lower frequency. Low frequencies are much harder to deal with. Much harder. Larger cabinets will always propel greater amounts of cabinet resonance into the room. The reason is simple. If the area of the cabinet is 100 times the area of the driver then the cabinet only has to resonate at 100th the amount of the driver to deliver the same amount of energy into the room. The test for this is to stop at a traffic light next to a car with a subwoofer in the trunk. The sound is amplified by the surface area of the car..

A propos.. Reading over at Oswalds Mill Audio on the choice of hardwoods for building their very large conical horns and cabinets, Mr. Weiss mentioned particular woods as being sonically desirable (i.e.: "the ones that sound good"). So, this is actually acknowledging the contribution of the surfaces not being the diaphragms themselves, but that would otherwise play a factor in the overall sonic outcome, and work with them as part of a whole. Others would fret over the issue of progressive size and its associating resonant tendencies, and altogether ditch their justification. Or, try to work around them as a means of seeking resonance elimination, and end up with enclosures the weight of several hundred kilos a piece, and a new set of challenges with the drivers being the by far biggest sonic contributor - not necessarily desirable.
1st this thread makes no sense at all and maybe that's what the intentions are. The originator thinks putting $30 speakers in a $10 cabinet and you have a $130,000 raidho speaker system.
also, if somebody spends more $$$ on something than what he does he thinks it's insane and foolish.
i don't need some guy that really doesn't know what he is talking about criticize me or others on how much they spend on something. 
Audio is not about how much money you can spend. Or are prepared to spend.

It is a fact that you need to pay a lot more to get double the quality. Still this is not the problem or limitation.

People who work in audio need to be more open and honest to give people more quality for the money they want to spend. It is too easy to be focussed just on your own F. needs.

Live is all about looking further. And in audio you also need to learn to look further. Differences are in the details.

Without music there is no audio. But without audio there is still music. People who work in audio need to learn to have more respect for music.

When they would have more knowledge and insight in music they would create different and better products. There are a lot of products which properties and qualtities has nothing to do with how music sounds.

When people have no idea how music sounds in real, you can say and sell them whatever you want. Based on time and techniques people could get a lot more in quality than what they get back.


Has anyone (including the OP) seen the cutaway of a Magico speaker enclosure?
Has anyone read about their drivers? I don’t know for sure, but I don’t think anyone can make these kinds of speakers in their basement or garage.

Are they worth the price, I don’t know? But I don’t think there are many DIY projects that sound anywhere near that good?

Am I missing something?
The thing about the waves off the back of the driver is that they have an output that is equal to the output into your room. The usual way to deal with that is add MDF bracing upon bracing which adds weight and more weight which lowers the resonance and makes the problem worse.  High resonance is much easier to deal with. Ping on a wine glass, to shut it down you merely touch it with your finger. That won't happen when you rap on a larger and heavier pan for example. Take out the 12" woofer from a speaker and you can see how vulnerable they are. 
Ideally to deal with resonance a speaker should be small and light. Or as small as possible and still maintain enough volume to load the drivers. 

The other advancement that makes a huge difference is composite technology. That is what happens when you touch the vibrating wine glass. Your finger and the glass work together to stop the resonance. Some speakers do that. My guess is that most don't. Vandersteen uses some carbon fiber in their model 7. Carbon fiber is excellent because sound waves pass through those long carbon molecules which vibrate and turn to heat. Works on planes that avoid radar detection. The radar waves don't bounce back to the source rather they are quickly converted to heat. 

It is easy to recognize how fast and clean electro static speakers are. The back waves are dumped into the room and the cabinet doesn't have to deal with them. They obviously have other problems.