Do equipment stands have an impact on electronics?


Mechanical grounding or isolation from vibration has been a hot topic as of late.  Many know from experience that footers, stands and other vibration technologies impact things that vibrate a lot like speakers, subs or even listening rooms (my recent experience with an "Energy room").  The question is does it have merit when it comes to electronics and if so why?  Are there plausible explanations for their effect on electronics or suggested measurement paradigms to document such an effect?
agear

erik_squires

@geoffkait
"Then please tell me a model to mathematically describe the effects of microphonics and vibration. Lacking that, it IS trial and error and devoid of engineering."

Ironically, we don’t have to model microphonics or vibration. We model the damping method or isolation method. Thus whatever vibration one has to do with we will know the effectiveness of the solution. For isolation devices for example we know that the ISOLATION EFFECTIVENESS - for whatever the local vibration environment looks like - is a relatively simple calculation based on spring rate, load and resonant frequency. So, obviously one would want to design his iso device with the lowest possible resonant frequency. Then the isolation effectiveness for any given frequency of vibration will be the highest. As I’ve said repeatedly no model can describe all vibration situations since there are wide variations in local seismic vibration (traffic, etc.), audio system characteristics - e.g., transformer noise, motor noise, speaker SPL, etc.

Erik again,

"Weren’t you a few pages back arguing it was impossible to use basic engineering practices to stands? Perhaps it was another camp."

No, it was not me. It must have been someone else. Since I am an engineer and a theoretical physicist I tend to use engineering practices and correct physical engineering theory.

Erik again,

"Or we are stuck at trepination and therefore unable to develop even aspirin and ibuprofin for headache relief."

No we are not stuck at trepination although this thread is starting to give ME a headache.

Erik again,

"I’m sure there are makers who can test their stands and make them vibrate less. What’s lacking is an explanation and model for what of these characteristics makes an audio system sound better. That’s what I mean about the loop not being closed. You can take a course in loudspeaker driver design, where you would dissect and analyze everything from an AMT to a fan-based woofer and know how to put those numbers together to explain the subjective effects of your choices in materials, magnets and coil geometry. We have no such thing for vibration control in audio. Usually around here some one responds "But we don’t need engineering...." and we go all the way back to making holes in customer’s heads for pain relief."

No need for all the drama. Vibration control and vibration isolation is a VERY mature science. Not need for hystryonics. Here is a quick study page for vibration isolation from Kinetic Systems. Save the drama for yo mama.

http://www.kineticsystems.com/page306.html

Erik again,

"They could sell a bazillion "vibration isolators" and it’s no proof to me of anything besides good marketing. Imagine even a light bulb being made today without a thorough understanding and accessibility of the sciences involved. Power, current, efficiency, materials and emitted light spectrum. Forget a light bulb, a chef’s knife has more science behind it than vibration control in audio."

There are many vibration control and vibration isolation devices for audiophiles. Your job is to study up on what vibration control and vibration isolation is all about so you are knowledgeable enough to make an informed decision regarding such devices, the cost of which range all over the place. As I keep saying the most technically challenging scientific project, or at least one of them, LIGO, was forced to employ vibration isolation in order to reduce the instrument’s sesitivity enough to observe gravity waves. This is not really a case of trial and error. It’s a case of understanding the underlying physics and requirements. Although now that you mention it, TRIAL AND ERROR is actually part of the scientific method and can be quite useful. Nothing wrong with them apples. In fact a lot of things in this hobby are unpredictable Inasmuch as how they will work out in a given system, no? 

geoff kait
machina dynamica
give me a strong enough spring and I’ll isolate the world
erik_squires wrote


Remember that in audio, the FTC sets some standards, but doesn’t measure the gear. It’s up to the equipment makers to measure and make claims, and occasionally magazines test them to see how close they are to the specifications.

>>>>>Really? The FTC sets standards for home audio? Id be curious to see any more info. as i already stated, manufacturers are under no obligation to either measure anything or make any claims. They can if they wish. there are some things in this hobby that are simply not amenable to measurement. See if you can name 3.

We are far from any of that I’m afraid. It’s up to academia and manufacturers and even interested hobbyists to explore and then define measurement protocols since there is a complete lack of them in audio. If someday that happens, then maybe down the line we’ll have legal standards for labels on racks like food nutrition content.

>>>There are no measurement requirements or protocols for home audio. Obviously there are certain standards involved such as Redbook CD and DVD and Blu Ray. There are no standards for noise, distortion or even Dynamic Range of home systems. Standards and protocols are not legally binding AFAIK\, CDs are produced that are not Redbook for example. Where are you coming up with this stuff?


Have a nice day





http://matrixhifi.com/ENG_contenedor_ppec.htm

system A has a nice stand
Say it ain't so.  
No need for all the drama. Vibration control and vibration isolation is a VERY mature science. Not need for hystryonics. Here is a quick study page for vibration isolation from Kinetic Systems. Save the drama for yo mama.

http://www.kineticsystems.com/page306.html
Not when applied to audio.  The LIGO nerds had to optimize one narrow variable (measurement accuracy).  That was their output variable.  I am still waiting to hear from you or anyone else a corollary in audio.  Furthermore, even if you could lock into a given finding, would blinded audio nerds or lay people know the difference?  Probably not.  You could easily do a blinded season at your local audio society of your magic Walkman versus a stock unit and see what if any differences could be discerned.  We all know at this point you are too scared to do that experiment.  

agear OP
1,252 posts
11-26-2016 10:27am
Geoffkait:No need for all the drama. Vibration control and vibration isolation is a VERY mature science. Not need for hystryonics. Here is a quick study page for vibration isolation from Kinetic Systems. Save the drama for yo mama.

http://www.kineticsystems.com/page306.html

to which Agear replied,

Not when applied to audio. The LIGO nerds had to optimize one narrow variable (measurement accuracy). That was their output variable. I am still waiting to hear from you or anyone else a corollary in audio. Furthermore, even if you could lock into a given finding, would blinded audio nerds or lay people know the difference? Probably not. You could easily do a blinded season at your local audio society of your magic Walkman versus a stock unit and see what if any differences could be discerned. We all know at this point you are too scared to do that experiment.

Hey, what?! No need for all the anger, dude. Sounds to to be you’re channeling Aqualung, spitting out pieces of his broken luck and everything. Can I suggest if you’re so obsessed with measurements why don’t YOU measure it? Has anyone noticed, Pseudo skeptics always demand measurements but they never actually DO any themselves. Why is that, do you think? 😍