The Palladian-A step beyond

From Lewm:

Besides damping spurious resonances one can also sink the energy that affects the magnitude of the resonance. This is what I think might be happening with the FR64S/66S. It may be that the tonearm is efficient at draining resonant energy away from the cartridge body and headshell. Because, as Raul correctly states, there is no impediment to energy transmission along the arm tube and back to the pivot and base structure, it may be that the energy is effectively drained away or "sinked".

While he is not a fan of the FR64s/66s, Jonathan Carr of Lyra has commented extensively on this principle of draining energy and it seems like a very valid approach:

In general, my cartridge designs use the arm as a path to bleed off excess vibrational energy (after the energy from the LP groove is used to move the cartridge coils and generate an electrical signal, it serves no useful purpose and is best gotten rid of as quickly and completely as possible). Therefore, my cartridge designs definitely prefer arms with stiff, non-resonant armpipes, and bearings that are completely free of slop or chatter. If the tonearm doesn't fit the above requirements, the tonal balance of the cartridge is likely to turn brighter and harder, due to excess vibrational energy reflecting off the arm and getting back into the cartridge coils.

http://db.audioasylum.com/mhtml/m.html?forum=vinyl&n=165118

Dear @lewm : You are only " thinking " and that's it. I only want that you remember one after market item that was designed to " drain " energy/vibrations in a fast way to damps vibrations/energy and that was the tip toes that were builded by all metal aluminum with out any kind of real damping " mechanism ". Everyone bougth it ( including me ) and time latter I fallen in count that it was not a good damping device but the other way around.

What you need is to listen ( all the same but the tonearm. ) the FR vs a well designed damped tonearm and differeces goes straigth and ca easily heard.

In the other side if your " thinking " were true then what we need are all same metal TT's designs including its plinth and platfforms where are seated. You can ask for to any TT or tonearm today designer and see what answer can gives you.

Anyway, an after your post I'm still voting for well designed damped tonearms and not " mere tip toes ".

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

Dear @sampsa55 : Yes, that’s why JC posted in Agon he did not like the FR ones ( I have that post. ).

He asks for " non-resonant arm pipes " ( as any single today tonearm designer but Mr. Ikeda. So, are all wrong but him?????. In the best way you can ask him or Halcro or any one you want that prove in scientific way why non damped tonearm designs are better for the quality sound levels than non-resonant arm pipes/tonearms.) where FR has resonant arm pipes because is not damped. It does not matters how fast vibrations/resonances/noises pass through it resonates and no one can do nothing about, can’t stop the feedback too. Is a mess of tonearm. Why argue in favor? when  seems to me that some of us only need to learn, that's all.


Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

Dear @sampsa55 : This is part of JC post I name it:

""" I agree that the FR-66S would be somewhat better than the SAEC, but truth be told, I’m not overly enamoured of the "S" family either (and I say this as the long-time owner of a 64S with Elevation Base and Arm Stabilizer). The stainless steel is great to look at, but less great to listen to, and when I run mine I prefer to keep a compression wrap around the tube. """


that " compression wrap " JC talks is a way to help damping the tonearm way resonant FR pipe.

He followed:

""" Yes, I’ve already done so with the Titan i. Likewise the Olympos. I agree that the results can be quite OK - as long as you wrap a damper strip around the armtube or take measures to dampen it better.... """

@halcro, he finalize his posts with:

"""  Finally, the headshell has a major impact on the sound, but I am sure that you are well aware of that. """


That very special build material wrap/strip was marketed by Sumiko and I owned and use it. Was extremely flexible and almost with no weigth for it self.


Almost all about damping in audio and its absolutely needs is only common sense not rocket science.


Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

I agree with Lewm that there are many ways of 'damping'....not only in relation to tonearms, headshells and cartridges but also platters, plinths, rooms, valves, casework and even cables.
Unfortunately, because of the lack of financial return and the moving nature of the technology......there is a dearth of real scientific study and/or published data for this broad hobby called 'audio'.

Every designer of every component for sale in audio, has a 'philosophy' and/or 'science' behind his product that makes it 'better' than what came before and that of his competitors.
If one bought a component based solely on the 'science' of the claims.....one would deserve the sound that resulted 👀
Despite the obvious knowledge of Jonathan Carr.....his Lyra cartridges are amongst the poorest I have heard in my system....on both damped and undamped tonearms....
So how to put that supposed 'knowledge' into perspective?

The most scientific and exhaustive analysis on tonearm design that has been University accredited, belongs to Continuum Audio Laboratories which resulted in the Cobra and Copperhead tonearms.
Using a design team of five eminent specialist scientists under the direction of Mark Doehmannn, they applied a suite of advanced software towards the modelling of both arms beginning with Finite Element Analysis using NASTRAN, PATRAN, and DYSTRAN whilst finalizing the designs in the complex process of Gradient Shape Optimisation using 'Reshape' from advea.com.

The four greatest 'universal' tonearms I have heard are the FR-64s, FR-66s, Cobra and Copperhead.
All four are 'undamped' in the traditional sense 😜