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Paradigm Personas: A First Listen

I thought starting a new thread would be more appropriate since it would allow for a more focused discussion.

I have Paradigm S8v2s and have owned them, since new, for 8 years.  I have lived with them happily and when I bought them I knew they were going to be a long term purchase.  Cables, sources etc may come and go but big speakers are harder to find, harder to move and sell (I think).  I found a local dealer (the only one in BC so far) that has the entire Persona line; except the 7F.  They had the 9H, 5F, 3F and Monitor.  I got to hear all of them.  The 9H was in a dedicated room set up for home theatre.  The others were in a 2 channel only system.  Preamp/source was a Cambridge Audio preamp with a media player built in, Wadia Class D amps.  System was nice, sounded good and not the "highest end" you would expect, but more real world.  I took along a CD of Parijat: Prayer to Love (excellent CD BTW.  Highly recommended and wonderfully recorded).  I am very familiar with the CD.  My system has its own room, Luxman Class A amps, Luxman preamp, Bryston DAC, Nordost and Wirewizard Cables.  I think my system has an edge on electronics, but I will leave that out as I think that is splitting hairs.

First speaker I heard was the 5F.  The first thing that is immediate is the midrange and treble purity, clarity, integration, smoothness and extension.  I definitely say there is no discontinuity between the mid/tweeter.  Having a Beryllium tweeter myself I know what to expect, and the 5F did not disappoint.  The sound was relaxed, clear, focused with excellent detail.  No harshness, grain, etch or sibilance at all.  Imaging was also excellent; focused, wide and deep with good height.  Note that the 5F, 3F were right beside each other and the Monitors on stands right beside the 3's.  They were in an open room not a dedicated room, so I could only suspect the speakers would sound better as the environment would get better.  In short, the tweeter/mid was superb.  The best I have heard.  I would give the edge to the Persona's over my S8's in this regard, but given the mid and tweeter are both Beryllium they are going to have identical resonances on the fact the material is the same; it will be homogenous.  The S8 is no slouch, so the differences are small, but I give the Persona the edge here.  And I like my S8's.  I have not felt wanting.

The description for the mid/tweeter is identical for each model; there was no difference, perhaps a slight difference for the Monitor but its limited lower end might of SEEMED things to be more clear/detailed.  Hard to say.  Bottom end on the 9H was robust, to be polite, but to be expected too.....4 8 inch cones internally powered...I think a subwoofer here would be redundant in all but the largest rooms to be sure.  But the snap, punch and detail were excellent.  Moving to the 5 and 3, the bottom end was not as prodigious but still extended and tuneful.  Detail was excellent but to be expected the 5 was more pronounced than the 3.  I think both (and the Monitor for sure) would benefit from a sub, but I leave that to the reader's personal taste.  There was no evidence of port noise or discontinuity of any type.  Unfortunately, I have yet to find out (if you would like to bi amp) WHERE the biamp crossover is.  I found out the hard way on my S8 it is between the tweeter/mid, not the mid/bass as you would expect.  This would allow for a Class A or tube amp on the all important mid/tweeter and a robust amp for the bottom end.  I would like Paradigm to be clear on this point as finding out the hard way for me was costly.  I let a good Bryston amp go for no reason other than the fact it was not able to work in my system as planned.  

I suppose the real question is this:  are they worth it?  Well, I thought about my own system on the drive home, and since my system's weak point is NOT the speakers, I would, for me, not buy or let my S8 go unless someone gave me a good offer.  The logistics of selling speakers that are 4 feet tall, almost 2 feet deep and 100lbs is not a small feat, and shipping (unless local pickup) will be expensive.  I bought the S8 knowing it was going to be with me for a long time, and in fact I would rather keep them since they are so good (to me).   But I would buy the Personas for sure.  The high end purity and midrange clarity, coherence and detail are so good I was floored by how good it was.  Bottom end weight and volume is a personal preference, and adding subs obviates the comparison there, as either the 5 or 3 would be a killer system with subs.  I had extended time with the 5 and 3 and the jump in price between the two makes sense if the sub is out of the equation.  I think the added bottom end on the 5 could easily be made up with the 3 and a good sub, think JL Audio f112, e110 or e112.  An outboard crossover as part of the deal would be stating the obvious (in fact the JL Audio CR 1 crossover is what I am eyeing next.  With this, should some time down the road come I decide to jump up to the Personas finances permitting, it would greatly affect what Persona I get).  But by then I might have a different room so whom knows, but so long as the flexibility is there you have options.  I was hoping to see the 7F but the 9H is almost identical in  size.  Considering the competition they are up against I think they hold very well.  Making a matching Beryllium tweeter and mid is no small feat, and costly to boot.  Moreover, Paradigm's size and economy of scale is such that you get more than you pay for, this has been a Paradigm hallmark.  A smaller company could bring out a matched Beryllium set, perhaps, but at what cost?  I can see why the Persona line costs more, but after seeing them and listening to them, I don't feel at all that they are overpriced or outrageous.  Obviously the sound is what counts, but there is more to it than that.  I honestly think you get what you pay for; the real trick is finding the goods out there that go a step further and really offer the "diamond in the rough".  For me personally, the cost and logistics of selling my current speakers is not something I can do right now.  But if I could, I would have no issue owning a Performa.  The 7F is what I have sought my sights on, but the 5F is no slouch.  As a smaller speaker, there is little to fault the 3F and add in a sub (or two)....watch out.  Even without subs, the 5 and the 3 are more than pleasant, and in a enclosed room where there is room reinforcement......it would be interesting to know.

Pictures do not do the speakers justice.  They are gorgeous.  Fit and finish is superb, certainly better than my S8. The lenses are really trick.  I don't think there should be any trouble with the WAF but their styling is a bit modern, some might not like it.  The room presence is not nearly as strong as you would think; the S8 being so deep and narrow hides in the room well.  The Personas do as well, but are so gorgeous you don't want to hide them.  You would think the 9H to be imposing, but that is not the case, especially if you are use to bigger speakers anyway.

I am very impressed and happy that the "step up" Paradigm has made has been done well, with thought, focus and obvious results.  As to relative to what is out there, especially to what I have heard, they compete favourable with much more expensive speakers, and I have heard Focals (which is another brand I like because, surprise, they have a Beryllium tweeter).  I just think the matching tweeter/mid, especially at the price, is hard to beat.  And I am sure that the better the gear upstream would only help the sound.  The 5Fs or 3Fs in my system with the gear I have would be very interesting.

Who knows what the year brings.  I give the Personas the highest recommendation, and this is from someone whom has owned a good pair for years without complaint.  If anyone is thinking of trying out a pair I urge you to do so if possible before making any decisions.  Paradigm, with the Personas, has truly evolved into a high end brand, and deserves consideration as such.  

 
128x128blackfly
audiotroy's avatar
audiotroy
3,835 posts
 
Thanks for starting this thread and raising awareness on how good the new Paradigm Personas really are.

I work with a gentleman, Dave store owner with 27 years experience, here at Audio Doctor in Jersey City NJ, and I do part time sales and turntable setup at the store. I am a bit of a technical nut with engineering background so when Dave told me about the incoming Paradigm’s I was very intrigued by the advanced technology in the new line,

We just sold off our demo pair of Signature V3 about two weeks ago, and we did a comparison of the old line vs the new under the same circumstances, when listened to side by side the new Persona’s are way better than the older Signatures.

We have two sound rooms with the new Persona speakers: we have the Persona 9H with T+A electronics from Germany in a full blown reference setup that costs around $150k with all the cables, power conditioners, electronics and digital and we have the Bookself Persona B and Persona 3F in our all purpose room with $13k of Naim gear, as well as many other components in a more down to earth setup.

I think the reason why you came away from the dealers demo as being impressed by the Persona but questioning how much better they are over the older Signatures is the difference between your setup, which uses much superior electronics, cabling, dac etc and this dealer who had a much more modest pairing of electronics.

We have found the Persona sound great on the new Micromega M100 $4k, better on the Naim 272/250DR setup, $13k, and we have and the speakers sound totally amazing  on the T+A HV electronics.

 So the moral of the story is these speakers deserve the best in partnering gear and when setup with matching components,  they can easily stand beside speakers that cost 2-3 times their price! 

I have heard $100k Rockports, $120k Kharmas and $70k plus Wilsons, $70k Vandersteens,  the Person 9H can match any of them and in many areas out perform all of these major players, I would also include $70k Magico in this mix. In terms of image holography and sheer transparency I would rate the Personas higher. 

The problem comes down to perception too many people think that because a company like Magico uses a heavier cabinet made out of metal it must be a better speaker, or because Wilson use composites it must have lower coloration etc, the fact is none of these other speakers use the exact same material for the midrange and tweeter so none of these players are as coherent, and none of these players use pure Beryilium which is one of the best materials in the world for making loudspeaker drivers add in state of the art bass drivers and active room correction to the 9H.

Paradigm has spent millions of dollars in producing the Persona line and it shows, they are clearly in the uber speaker class yet cost a fraction of their costs.

The 3F at $10k can go toe to toe with most $20k speakers they are that good.


gpgr4blu
1,094 posts
 
I heard the T&A system with Personas presented by Audio Doctor at the NY audio show this fall. I must say it was an impressive speaker for the $. The T&A gear was also very impressive. It was one of my favorite rooms at the show--but it was not a cost no object favorite. The hyperbole of one who works there even part time has no place at Audiogon. I have heard the speakers with which the Personas are compared above (100k Rockports, $70k plus Wilsons, 70k Magicos and Vandersteens (I assume the 7s) and there is simply no comparison). However, the Personas will now be in the mix with competitively priced speakers from those brands, all of whom are among the best speaker manufacturers in the world. The Personas are worth a listen in their price range, but the next step up in each of the brands mentioned above (let alone 2 steps up) are clearly superior to the Paradigms IMHO.
audiotroy's avatar
audiotroy
3,835 posts
 
To gpgr4blu, you are honestly judging your entire experience with the Personas on one show demo in a way too small hotel room, with crappy acoustics, and in that one room only one or two seats were you able to get the best sound from that system. 

In our shop we have the 9H setup much bigger room and they are spectacular, they are one of the most holographic speakers you will ever hear. 

In terms of comparison’s to the other players, where do you come off as an expert, we had a $120k pair of Kharmas in the shop and they were impressive but not better than the $35k Personas. My friend has 27 years of experience, and I have 40 and I was a mechanical engineer, as well as a loudspeaker builder, and I have been going to shows and listening for decades.

Now I don’t know what planet you come from but Kharama has a reputation for building some of the most respected loudspeakers on the market, we did  a direct comparison same room, same system, same setup. 

As per Vandersteen or Magico they are not better speakers, do you honestly think that the Vandersteen 7 is a more technologically advanced speaker than the Paradigms? Paradigm can outspend Vandersteen on development without raising a sweat, Paradigm is one of the largest speaker manufacturers in North America, so they can devote $4 million dollars on this project, which is a far greater development budget than what a boutique speaker company can spend on development. 

There are currently no other speaker systems on the market which use pure Beryillium for both the midrange and tweeter drivers, why this is important is due to the fact that Pure Beryillium and Pure Diamond drivers are the most resolute drivers, on the planet and offer the least amount of coloration.

Tale of the tape: Focal Beryillium tweeter and composite fiberglass midrange.

Wilson Silk domes tweeter paper composite midrange.

Magico Diamond coating on Beryillium composite tweeter, Graphene carbon fiber based midrange.

Only Vandersteen on this list uses the same materials for both the midrange and tweeter, and although very fine composite of balsa wood and carbon fiber, still drivers with more mass than pure Beryillium and they cost $70k!

Other than the Polymer MKX-s which are $70k Diamond tweeter and midrange,and the Tidal loudspeakers, Diamond tweeter and midrange,and a $180k pair of Lumin Whites, which use the Acuton pure diamond drivers, there is not another company producing drivers with this level of performance, and especially at these prices!

Throw in that the Paradigms start with a $7k pair of monitors and a $10k floor-stander they are going to be a force to be reckoned with.

As per which of the many sacred cow Audiophile brands are better it is always up to a listener to decide, but as I mentioned earlier we test and we listen, and I have gone to many shows and dealer events, when I said what I said earlier this is based on years of experience as well as hearing the Rockport speakers, hearing Wilsons, hearing Magico, hearing YG, these are all fantastic speakers, what I said is that the Paradigms can compete with any of them and in some ways can match or outperform them that is not hyperbole.

With enough money and dedication any large company can pull together a product that can stand up to or outperform what a small boutique company can produce easily, Paradigm is a huge company with vast resources, the Persona line is proof positive that Paradigm can build a technologically advanced, superior sounding product, and price it realistically.

I would invite you to our shop to hear the Personas setup in a real room rather than a tiny hotel room with crappy acoustics and judge for yourself




gpgr4blu
1,094 posts
 
Audiotroy:
You don’t get the gist of my criticism. I have been an audiophile for 37 years. I know your boss from back when he worked at Sound By Singer and I use to purchase a bit from Andy. Andy was and still is a salesman but he has not been to this site to promote his products even without excess hyperbole. Nor have I seen such conduct here from the fellas at Lyric HiFi, Innovative Audio, Stereo Exchange, Audio Arts, Park Avenue Audio, In Living Stereo, Rhapsody Music, Audio Nexus, Audio Connection and other dealers in the NY Metro area whom I have visited and/or purchased numerous sytems from over the years--and those are just off the top of my head. I can say that I have heard numerous speaker models from most of the major audio brands over the years and thousands of speakers in total including, I’m sure, the 100k plus Kharmas that you now add to the list of outstanding speakers that you claim are smoked by the mighty Paradigms. In fact, I’m overly obsessed with going to audio dealers wherever I travel if they carry brands I have never heard at dealers in the NY-Metro area. I also attend audio shows throughout the country.
None of the above means that I claim to know more than you about loudspeaker performance and pricing (BTW, please note that many believe beryllium is far from the most resolute material on the planet and further that a large budget does not a great manufacturer make otherwise we’d all buy Focal, B&W, Bose, Dynaudio and countless other large manufacturers many of whom manufacture their own drivers), but it does answer your question as to what planet I come from.
Now to the point---it is just unseemly for you to come to this site and tell us that the new Paradigm speakers are superior to all of the other fine speakers which you mentioned. It is a patently ridiculous claim and I don’t have to visit Audio Doctor to make that determination. ( I may visit Electronic Concepts in Rochelle Park to determine if the speakers are competitive with the best in their price range ). Indeed the rep from Paradigm at the show said that he believed the Personas competed with speakers up to even twice the price. I guess you guys know more than he or that he was being too modest.
You should know that years ago, your boss used the same type of hyperbole at a show to try to sell me Usher speakers (the best at I don’t remember how many multiples of the price) and the infamous future- proof- perfect sounding Memory Player. His over the top presentation was a complete turnoff to me and, as a result, Dave lost his credibility. I did not follow up by visiting him at the store. Here, turbo-hyperbole by one who works for a dealer is a waste of space and my time.
I am sure others feel the same way.
gpgr4blu
1,094 posts
 
By the way--to Blackfly and Bifwynne-- on first listen the Personas were very impressive.  I also believe that they will be well reviewed in the audio press and deservedly so. Nevertheless I don't think owners of 70k+ Wilsons, Magicos and Vandersteens will be trading theirs in for the Personas any time soon. 
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