2. cables
  3. 127600-2130

Who thinks $5K speaker cable really better than generic 14AWG cable?

I recently ordered high end speaker, power amp, and preamp to be installed in couple more weeks. So the next search are interconnect and speaker cable. After challenging the dealer and 3 of my so called audiophile friends, I think the only reason I would buy expensive cable is for its appearance to match with the high end gears but not for sound performance. I personally found out that $5K cable vs $10 cable are no difference, at least not to our ears. Prior to this, I was totally believe that cable makes a difference but not after this and reading few articles online.

Here is how I found out.

After the purchase of my system, I went to another dealer to ask for cable opinion (because the original dealer doesn't carry the brand I want) and once I told him my gears, he suggested me the high end expensive cable ranging from $5 - 10K pair, depending on length. He also suggested the minimum length must be 8-12ft. If longer than 12ft, I should upgrade to even more expensive series. So I challenged him that if he can show me the difference, I would purchase all 7 AQ Redwood cables from him.

It's a blind test and I would connect 3 different cables - 1 is the Audioquest Redwood, 1 is Cardas Audio Clear, and 1 my own generic 14AWG about 7ft. Same gears, same source, same song..... he started saying the first cable sound much better, wide, deep, bla...bla...bla......and second is decently good...bla...bla...bla.. and the last one sounded crappy and bla...bla...bla... BUT THE REALITY, I NEVER CHANGED THE CABLE, its the same 14AWG cable. I didn't disclosed and move on to second test. I told him I connected audioquest redwood but actually 14AWG and he started to praise the sound quality and next one I am connected the 14awg but actually is Redwood and he started to give negative comment. WOW!!!! Just blew me right off.

I did the same test with 3 of my audiophile friends and they all have difference inputs but no one really got it right. Especially the part where I use same generic 14awg cable and they all start to give different feedback!!!

SO WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK? OR I AM THE LAST PERSON TO FIND OUT THAT EXPENSIVE CABLE JUST A RIP OFF?
sautan904
douglas_schroeder
3,281 posts
 

zkzpb8, thank you for referencing that article! I was the author of that article, and let me tell you it was a fascinating experience! I went to the point of putting my subjective impressions to the test literally, even though as a reviewer it would have caused a crisis in many respects had I not been able to distinguish cables, or other components, blindly.

I was willing to put my reputation on the line as a reviewer in order to confirm or disconfirm my opinions. That is but one reason why I hold no esteem for someone who is so self-confident and chintzy that they will not spend a couple hundred dollars or take some time to conduct simple comparisons. 

There are two kinds of audiophiles, those who talk and those who build systems. Those who build systems get a lot better at it than those who talk.  :)

The surprise regarding amps was confirmed by Richard Van Alstine, who in use of the ABX Comparator obtained the same results; level matched amps were indistinguishable. However, we do not level match when switching between amps, so it's a moot point.

One of my big conclusions after that review is one does not need blind testing to hear differences in cables. If the two cables sound similar, move on, because you will encounter ones that sound quite differently. If you are not able to hear differences at all, then stick with swapping components and speakers.

I expect skeptics to discount my findings, even though I took pains to be precise and forthright. So be it.

Post removed 
bassmass1
13 posts
 
+1 gbmcleod you just hit the nail on head.
shadorne's avatar
Ag insider logo xs@2x
shadorne
7,477 posts
 
I don’t discount Doug’s findings but the whole concept of cables or interconnects being used to affect sound is wrong. Properly designed audio should minimize extraneous effects (wires between components).

Amplifier manufacturers can design amps to high tolerances of THD and low Intermodulation distortion such that most amps are indistinguishable in ABX testing DESPITE being made from different wires and of different lengths and often slightly different topologies.

Given what amplifiers can do it is logical that ordinary bits of wire can and SHOULD do even better in being transparent to the source signal.

My conclusion is that audiophile wires are being deliberately designed and fabricated to act as an equalizer or filter!!! If they were designed to be transparent to tight tolerances like amps then they too would be indistinguishable. After all we put a man on he moon and none of this is rocket science.

So I don’t refute the result. However that audiophiles are using audio cable filters to modify sound is totally ridiculous in my view. I would recommend buying better equipment in the first place - equipment that sounds good without audio filtering - rather than trying to band aid bad sound with additional filtering. If your equipment is well chosen and well matched then it will sound great WITHOUT filtering.
douglas_schroeder
3,281 posts
 

dynaquest, it's Soo's livelihood, but it's not mine. I don't get paid to write my reviews. I am fully aware that it is counter-productive to do so, but I also do not wish to be encumbered by the politics of the industry.

I do not subscribe to the importance of break in of cables. I'm not impressed by a method that purportedly yields significant changes when you can do so immediately by swapping cables. That is not readily apparent until you actually DO comparisons. So, you can take me off your reviewers to condemn list in those regards. :)

Shadorne: you commented, "I don’t discount Doug’s findings but the whole concept of cables or interconnects being used to affect sound is wrong. Properly designed audio should minimize extraneous effects (wires between components)."  I ask, says who? Please quote the authorities who have proven that cables are not to be used as tone controls (and imo much more). Last time I checked systems can have any element altered to improve performance. Since when are cables off the table in terms of an element of a system to manipulate to improve performance? Due to theory? That's wonderful, but in actuality, in the real world they are highly effective.

Your argument regarding Amplifiers and different internal wiring, topologies etc. is invalid. You concluded, "Given what amplifiers can do it is logical that ordinary bits of wire can and SHOULD do even better in being transparent to the source signal." Note that all other components in the Van Alstine ABX Comparator review, though differing in schematics and construction, were easily discerned. Amps are unique in this way, and they do not hold that property in the real world as there is no practical way to level match them from system to system.

Regarding your assertion that one should seek better quality gear; How good of equipment do you think you would need to overcome the supposed build quality issue you present? Perhaps$24K in Pass Labs monoblocks, maybe about $35K of VAC pre/amps, Simaudio, SST, Van Alstine, Music First, Wells Audio, Empirical Audio, Coda Technologies, Ayon Audio, Moscode, Jones Audio, Einstein, Pathos, etc.? I have reviewed these all, and ALL of these are sensitive to cables of all sorts. I have never encountered ANY audiophile gear that was insensitive to the use of cables, thankfully! If any gear was I wouldn't want to use it, as it would be garbage. I have had conversations online with Nelson Pass and other designers about such things. It's quite fun, actually!

You guys simply do not believe it. So be it. I'm not going to debate it forever. :)

More to discover