To Pre or not to Pre? Here is my take


I remember reading in many places that the best preamp was no preamp.
Finally in a position to test that theory
Equipment is Esoteric sa-50 player, audio research ls preamp, bat vk600 power amp.
So I let everything warm up for an hour or so and then played some Halestorm through the system, for anybody who is not familiar with Mz. Hale, she is similar to a smoother Bonnie Tyler with more range! Her band has some great bass guitar and drum work as well so a nice little workout.
After 5 or 6 tracks I changed over to powering the bat direct from the esoteric using the same cardas xlr interconnects.
It only took a couple of tracks to confirm
I just did not like this sound, bass was much thinner, soundstage not as wide, vocals not as smokey for want of a better description of Mz. Hales style.
Hooked the ls2 back and joy was restored!

What does this tell me?
That absolutely the ls preamp is adding its own sonic signature to the mix, in theory that equates to probably a more "dirty" sound but to me this was the sound I preferred.
Now obviously no 2 people listening to the same gear are going to hear the same thing, its impossible!
However playing MY music on MY gear the sound going through the ls2 preamp was the sound that I wanted to hear, end of story.
Oh trust me its not just value perception, I sort of WANTED the sound to be better without the ls2 preamp as I could have then sold it and spent the money elsewhere! 
I know there will be lots of people who can spout theories to prove I am full of it but the only judge of the sound of your own system worth worrying about is yourself!
128x128uberwaltz
A keen observation and test-  uberwaltz

the pre-amp, as it were, is the heart of any system. I want the very best piece of hardware to do its duty. Get it right and one will be musically rewarded.
Well nearly as good as buying a new pre and all just $35
Installed the Golden Lion tube today ( nice my pre only has one tube!)
To start it was awful but as the tube "broke in" somewhat the music unfolded and what music.
Very familiar tracks took on new life, wider soundstage, tighter bass lines and less chestiness to the vocals.
A change I can definitely hear and this is only 3 hours of run time on the tube!
Very happy camper......
Still getting better and better for very little dollars.
Now have fitted a Herbies tube damper cost $22 shipped and yes, another audible improvement.
Even more clarity and depth to vocals and wider soundstage.
If this carries on you will have me believing a fuse can actually make a difference I could hear.....lmao
Even if there were engineering issues, forty years is more than enough time to solve them. Not to be a curmudgeon, but I suspect most of what is being engineered in wire and linestages are differences marketed to different tastes.
This statement is false to the best of my knowledge. Any designer worth their salt is doing the best they can.

This engineering issue is in fact solved. There is a reason why passives don’t always work- it has to do with the interconnect cables and what the source is. The engineering issue is that its usually a Bad Idea to have a volume control driving an interconnect cable. It is also true that sometimes you can get away with it. Sometimes the control acts to reduce the effectiveness of the output coupling capacitor in the source device. So as you turn the control down from full volume, you get a reduction in bass. This phenomena has been documented for decades. That is why you rarely see volume controls at the output of electronics without some sort of buffer from the interconnect cable, unless the interconnection is known to be very short.

I agree entirely, move my equipment to another room and the result could be entirely different. Or bring another set of ears in and they may hear it differently to myself.

I think you will find that this has nothing at all to do with the room and everything to do with your equipment!

Here’s how it works. The source has an output impedance that must drive the interconnect cable and the input impedance of the amplifier. The source impedance is not always linear with frequency- quite often it is considerably higher at 20Hz than it is at 1000 Hz (look up the measurements on various CD players, phono sections and the like and you will see this quite often). The source drives a cable, which then is connected to the PVC. The output impedance of the control often **appears** low, since quite often its the wiper of the control and at low volumes its close to ground.

But from the source point of view things are different. If the control is all the way up, the source drives the interconnects and the amplifier directly. As you turn the volume down though, the source has to go through an increasingly higher resistance to get to the amp. If the source already has a variable output impedance that is higher at lower frequencies, the fact is that the ratios of the control vs the output impedance means that the source simply isn’t going to make as much voltage at those frequencies where the output impedance is higher (like in the bass).

Result: lack of bass impact (a tilt towards the high end) results. People report this all the time; now you know why it happens.

It can be avoided by an output impedance that is linear with respect to frequency. The problem here is that to do that often requires a larger output coupling capacitor in the source (which pushes the rolloff down to a point below human hearing). A larger coupling cap often means additional coloration on the part of the cap itself (increased inductance accompanies increased capacitance as capacitors are rolled into a cylindrical shape). On top of that, the designer has to avoid an overly-large coupling cap that might allow the bandwidth of the circuit to exceed the power supply’s low frequency bandwidth (else low frequency instability can occur which can manifest as IMD, muddiness, even thumping). So there are constraints on how large the output coupling capacitor can be.

This means that this conversation will continue for some time, as people will continue to encounter variable results; its 100% equipment dependent.

At least now you know why it happens.
The source impedance is not always linear with frequency- quite often it is considerably higher at 20Hz than it is at 1000 Hz (look up the measurements on various CD players
This is also just as true with just as many preamps outputs, not just sources, especially tube ones also some solid state ones.
Today many sources have just as strong/drive (low output impedance) as most preamps have. (excluding sources with tube output stages).

Cheers George