Clyde Stubblefield RIP

@frogman

I think in the pocket means the beat has movement or swings.

Compare

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U3sMjm9Eloo

to

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6UdZIh8_xGc

Note how the second example grooves better - both are swung but the musicians hold their relative time better in the second example whereas the first example they follow the drummer too much and wander. Also Jim Riley (master drummer) is late on the 2 and 4 which gives it more lilt while the rhythm guitar keeps very rigid time to help create the time bending effect. The rhythm guitar locks in with the drums too much on the first example. Rhythm guitar is EXTREMELY tricky to get that perfect driving feel that grooves - hence legends like Nile Rogers have made a career from it.

So in the pocket requires setting correct time (hi hat usually) and then swinging some other parts of the beat to create the groove or lilt. The band needs to be tight and play well together to maximize the effect. A drummer can create the effect alone as in this example (delays the 4 and effective use of high hat to accent the "&")

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Bk3N84ArTno

Steve Ferrone kind of dances as he plays (trained as a tap dancer) but if you notice his beat 1 is always in the right place like a human metronome.

Shadorne, it’s possible we may be saying the same thing depending on our definition of our choice of terminology, but I have to disagree with your definition of "in the pocket". I have never heard a musician use the terms "in the pocket" "in a deep pocket" or "player x has a lot of pocket" to mean that the time "moves". Quite the contrary, it refers to a very very steady sense of rhythm with a "good feel" attitude; what some call great groove, funkiness etc. (what I referred to when I said that Stubblefield’s playing was relaxed).

I am sure you have heard a metronome produce "perfect time"; a sequence of absolutely perfectly spaced clicks. But perfect time does not mean "feel good" or "swinging" or "funky"; a metronome is after all just a machine. Think of each one of those metronomic clicks in time as a dartboard with a series of rings and a bullseye in the center. Each of those perfect clicks occupies a certain amount of space in time and there is a certain amount of acceptable latitude (rings) on either side of the rhythmic bullseye as would be defined by the very center of that click, but only as long as the player’s pulse dart stays on the "dartboard". As in darts, hitting any one of those rings can be considered hitting the target; but the closer the pulse gets to the bullseye, the more "in the pocket" it is. One of the two main things that define a player’s (not only drummers) sense of rhythm and unique time feel is wether his personal concept defines the pulse as being on the front side or the backside of the rhytmic bullseye. This is why some players have a very relaxed feel (back side) and others have a very "up" feel (front side). The other aspect of a player’s concept that defines the rhythmic feel is how the pulse is approached or set up by the figures he plays. Stubblefield was one of those players whose pulse was always, not only in the bullseye, but dead center in that bullseye and perhaps just a smidgen on the back side of the pulse (relaxed). The key was that it didn’t waver ("move"?); it was steady as a rock. Sure, the drummer can manipulate or play with the time but the PULSE generated has to be very steady to be "in the pocket". 

Regards.

I originally started this thread because I noticed that 3 days after his death, NO ONE had recognized it.

I do appreciate all of the meaningful posts but to start grappling over his drumming style on this thread, seems to diminish the thought behind the post.

Maybe another post to describe his influence on music?....

"The influence Clyde Stubblefield had on music and the art of drumming"

Just my opinion.

Happy listening.

I think you are exactly right, Slaw; something that came to mind and grappled with before responding to shadorne and I should have gone with my gut feeling.  Certainly no disrespect intended towards the thought behind your post and I hope that what I wrote is a reflection, at least in part, of the respect that I have for him as a musician. 

frogman,

I realized this and had trouble writing my last post for this very reason.

Now that all is good.. hopefully all of his great work will be immortalized in a thread that will exemplify the artist that he was!

Thank you for your post!