2. amps-preamps
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Used Preamp on a budget advice please.

I’m currently running a top of the line Yamaha AVR as my preamp in a system consisting of a Threshold S500/II, B&W 802 S2 and B&W 801 S2 speakers, which I swap from time to time. I’m also just using a Yamaha DVD player as a CD player, but am planning to buy an older, higher end CD player as well. I also use a PC with iTunes running to an Audioengine D1 DAC. I also have a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon turntable and would need to a phono amp for the products listed below.

I’m going to add an older preamp (with remote) for 2 channel to try to extract more definition, depth, etc, and to try to warm up the sound (the plan is to add a passive, high quality RCA switch to choose between preamp and AVR). I have a limited budget of up $700 and have been doing lots of looking. It appears that for my budget and need for a remote control, older pre/pro’s may be the best approach. I’m curious if anyone has any advice, opinion, or ideas on my approach and the following preamp possibilities:

Classe SSP-300
Classe SSP-75
Classe SSP-30 MK II
Cary Cinema 6
Simaudio Moon Stargate
Parasound C2
Krell Showcase PR
Krell KAV-250P

Thanks!
dastro
dastro OP
42 posts
 
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Well, the Krell KAV-250p has a "home theater passthrough" mode that can be configured on input #3. You would just take the left/right pre-outs from the Yamaha and connect them directly into input 3 on the Krell. This will save you the cost of the RCA switcher and extra RCA cable. Also, I think you'd get a bit better performance from this 2-channel preamp then you would from the multi-channel Pre/Pros you listed.

http://krellonline.com/assets/support/KAV250P_V000_MAN.pdf

Referenced on page 8 of the user manual.

Auxinput, thanks for the input.

The Krell 250P interests me, but time and time again, I'm reading that the Krell sound is more forward and brighter than Classe, which is what I'm trying to avoid.  I guess I can always try various pieces and sell what doesn't work for me. 
dastro OP
42 posts
 
Dastro - Your philosophy and approach is absolutely sound.

In almost every respect the very best deals on used 2ch stereo preamps on the market today might just be older extreme high-end pre/pro's that lack HDMI and modern processing formats.

I think that adding an SSP-300 into your existing system might be an interesting experiment.  Also, with the vast array of hookups and routing options, you should be able to forego that passive RCA switcher and run the Classe and the Yamaha together without need for another piece of equipment.
Greg,  do you know how I would be able to connect the AVR to the SSP-300?  I'm not quite sure what inputs I would connect it to.

Thanks!
auxinput
2,920 posts
 

The 250P is the Krell item that was actually somewhat in-between the older Krell sound and the newer "bright/forward" Krell sound. The 250P had good resolution and definition, but had just a tiny bit of warmth there as well. If you’re really worried about this, maybe look for a Krell KRC-3 (it still has a home theater passthrough). The KRC series is older than KAV-250p and a bit warmer, but sometimes you can hear sibilance in vocals and a tiny bit of smear (from the warmth). I would avoid the Showcase / HTS7.1 / KAV-280p if you don’t want the forward/bright sound.

The 280p pushed for resolution and clarity and strength in signal.  This is actually what I love because the resolution reveals more realistic sounds.  Though, you will want to make sure you stay away from silver interconnects and speaker cables.

The older Classe preamps (like CP45 / CP60) were VERY VERY warm and slow. (way too warm/slow for me). I think the newer stuff is not as warm. I’ve read descriptions of the newer Classe as being very smooth, silky, liquidy (maybe the SSP-300 would have some of this).

I don’t know what the Simaudio / Parasound stuff sounds like.

Like gregkohanmim has said, you could really use any preamp here. If it doesn’t have a home-theater passthrough, you would have to reset the volume to a specific level every time you use the signals from the Yamaha. (maybe set at 50% / 75% / or a specific number on the preamp display).

gregkohanmim
153 posts
 
"Greg, do you know how I would be able to connect the AVR to the SSP-300? I'm not quite sure what inputs I would connect it to."

Dastro - I'd have to check the manual for the SSP but I think that it allows for HT type bypass as does the CP series (manual is online). - Otherwise, you'd probably need to look at the manual and connections on your Yamaha to see what's possible (you'd need preamp inputs - totally bypassing the processor/ volume, etc).

I think that the weirdest part of this potential setup that you're pursuing is the fact that you're utilizing the amps in the AVR so you really don't get to bypass it completely with a new pre/pro.

Still I'd look at your manual and see what's possible but I'll bet in the end you might end up w/ either 2 dedicated systems or at least going w/ separates.

At the end of the day, however, the older processor that are pre-HDMI are insanely cheap for a high-end 2CH setup - incorporating that into a modern AVR, however, that's a different thing altogether...

Still worth some research and experimentation IMHO.

Greg



georgehifi's avatar
georgehifi
10,312 posts
 
dastro

Your Threshold Threshold S500/II (great amp BTW I had one) only needs around 1.2v input to give full 250w output, so a low gain preamp would be best to have so you can have a good range of rotation on the volume control, as most sources are over >2v output.
And it has a 75kohm input impedance, which would be a great match for a passive preamp. The way I used it.

I would say being new school this maybe better and it’s new with warranty and it has remote, trial the Schiit Audio Freya (from the guy who designed Theta Audio’s best products) , as it can be a passive pre, active tube pre, or active solid state pre. So you can suit your moods. All with low gain so you’ll have plenty of range control with your volume control.
Plus it has balanced or rca input and outputs and comes with a extremely high quality 128 position relay based volume control, and it’s all remote controllable as well. For just $699 with a trial period, so you could send it back if you don’t like it.
http://schiit.com/products/freya

And they make a great phono stage as well mm/mc.
http://schiit.com/products/mani

Cheers George
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