Fidelity Research FR-64 vs. FR-54

Just to be clear, by tweaking Raul for his nearly crazy hatred of tubes, I do not mean to imply a similar negative bias against transistors. Perhaps I went too far in that direction, in order to get Raul's goat. (Raul, there must be an equivalent phrase in Spanish.)  I am quite confident that wonderful sounding gear can be built with either or both types of active devices. I like to think that I have an open mind in this regard.  But it is simply not true that "tubes" are inherently higher in distortion than are solid state devices, which is Raul's mantra.  On that point, I do insist.  And anyway, this is a sidebar to the debate about the FR64S, which is also a sidebar to the OP's question about comparing the FR54 to the FR64S.  Love it or hate it, the FR64S is meant to be superior to the FR54 by its makers. At least we got that much across.

I would welcome the opportunity to audition Raul's phonolinepreamp in my system(s).  I was lately under the impression that it is out of production.  Someone would have to loan me one.  It is quite possible for a low production, high end product such as that one to become a "cult classic" with enduring value and even the potential for appreciation.  People pay way over original price for such pieces as the CTC Blowtorch, the MFA Luminescence, the Vendetta phono stage, etc. (I owned two tweaked samples of the MFA Luminescence, and I much prefer my Atma-sphere MP1.)

Dear @sbank : No, I'm not using you. Far away from that. As you I have very good memory ( is an atribute God gave me. ) and I remember those great days with you people.

Things were as this: "  poorly constructed Omega Mikro power cable was stepped on and damaged resulting in a DC surge ", yes I made it by accident when I was trying to connect my unit that at that moment was the only unit switch on in your system and things happen when I was swtching on my unit. No other system item was on. What happened is that all the external and internal fuses in my unit blow and we can't listen the system with my unit. After this you and me gone to Radio Shack and bougth new fuses ( the original ones were expensive hi-fi tune fuses. ). Comeback to your house and my unit works flawless on that " accident " and was precisely in this moment when the OTL were swtching on and we listening for a whle with out no problem. The problem was latter on ( the other gentlemans already gone after the listen session. As a fact you and me were in a hurry because your friends were invited to that listening session and my unit was down! ) and I remember that you and me were trying to identify which of the tubes in the amplifier connected at the left speaker was the problem and we did it smelling it.

In the other side,I remember at your place that when Joe ( whom knew very well your system quality performance levels. ) was there and we were listening your system and playing with my unit he approach me close to my left ear and told me: " Raul you are a magician ". Certainly I'm not other thing than a music lover.

Anyway, thank's for your contribution and again sorry to disturb you that was not my intentions. Never is with no one every where.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC not DISTORTIONS,
R.

Dear @lewm : I re-read your post of advantages/disadvantages and that’s exactly what I learned and what learned all the biased tube lovers.

But that was information created in the middle of the past century and today we are in other century in 2017. Don’y you think that through 67+ years things improved for SS? even today exist bipolars designed specific for audio something that was not on those very old days. In the other side SS designers enhance their knowledge and skills levels.

Almost nothing of your post against SS is true today.

Btw, noise level in a unit is a kind of distortion and no one single tube design can approach the very low noise floor in SS today units.
@lewm why your unit is an hybrid one?, easy answer: to achieve clean high gain with low noise that tubes can’t even. Noise levels are part of the dynamic range as is the frequency response widder or not range

You are only one of the few gentlemans that even that sometimes are angry gainst me never try to hit me and that’s why we can have hot discussions learning inside it both of us.

The majority of the people with high audio ignorance levels always try to hit me and that’s the only reason they post in threads where I’m. Problem with them is that in reality can’t hit me becfause they do not know audio arguments that could does it.
Typical example of that is @thekong , this gentleman post after post is trying that and he did not achieved and his frustation levels goes higher and higher then come back " for more ". Be that way if he is happy with.

Now, your post there today are only myths in reference to SS electronics. Myths as are many of your touted tubes. Example: tubes development of second harmonics ia the name of the game against odd ones developed by SS.

But reality is way different regarding audiophiles top preferences and exist very well documented blind tests in listening sessions with two similar amps where one develop 2nd. harmonics and the other the odd third one and you know what: all golden ears prefered the sound of the amp developing third harmonics. But this is not the only example on harmonics there are many and the next is other very good example of those audio myths:

if any one of us ask to other audiophile which the best true analog source experience 100% will answer: Open Reel tape recorders.
Well, this analog best source develps only odd harmonics: 3nd and fifth, we can’t measure 2nd harmonic down there.

As I posted here and every where I owned several all tube audio system and heard top top systems handled by the best tube designs ( you can name it any and you can be sure I already experienced. ) and no single one can honor MUSIC. Yes, it can " sound " but I’m not looking for sound as @thekong or others: I’m looking for the " perfect " system that can be nearest to the live MUSIC as no other one in Earth. SS is today the only path to achieve it.

Again: now, I posted several times in this and other forums than in any audio system the owner of it can be sure that the system quality level performance is true " top notch " when the digital experience outperforms the analog experience in his sytem.
Always existed and exist the myth that CD were " irritant " especially in the high frequencies and a limited source on frequency range and many other " myths " but the culprit in reality is not of the CD by it self technology but from those old DACs and some bad recordings but several of those " bad " recordings " we thought were really bad and when your system is " there " then that bad CD will performs just amazing and surpassing its LP counterpart. There is no doubt about, you only have to to have that kind of quality system level with a today CD player ( no, you don’t need HR or other digital technology. ). Digital surpassed several years ago what LP can’t even and never will It does not matters what MF say about that btw when he still support the LP experiences are only saying that his audio system is not " there " yet.

Even in this forum today exist people that are digifhobic and are in this way because his very high ignorance levels.

Here is an interesting post, please read on what this very special gentleman posted about digital experience:

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/interesting-project-started-by-michael-fremer/post?postid=126...

and we are not talking of a more of the same: audio system:

https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/615


I will continue because there are to much to learn from every one here and ever where.

@lewm there are four versions of my Essential phonolinepreamp: the very first 3150, a revision/up date to the 3150, the third is a whole revision and is the 3160 and the fourth version is my unit where I made it additional modifications. Yes, always looking for " perfection " nothing less. Same with my tonearm design.


Regards and enjoy the MUSIC not DISTORTIONS,
R.

While I have enjoyed a couple of solid state phono stages and tube linestages since then, I am open to considering all designs and never nod my head in agreement when you mention me as someone who "saw the light" regarding solid state superiority. I just sold my hybrid monoblocks and am replacing with a solid state power amp, but that doesn't mean I don't still appreciate virtues of all design types. I am a believer that there is "more than one way to skin a cat". Please don't use me as an example of the opposite.

Hi Spencer, thank you for your post regarding what happened in your room!

I agreed with your above statement wholeheartedly. There is no perfect component, and we shouldn't limit ourselves to one (any) design type!

Like you, I also have both tubes and SS components, and they do have different advantages.

The majority of the people with high audio ignorance levels always try to hit me and that’s the only reason they post in threads where I’m. Problem with them is that in reality can’t hit me becfause they do not know audio arguments that could does it.
Typical example of that is @thekong , this gentleman post after post is trying that and he did not achieved and his frustation levels goes higher and higher then come back " for more ". Be that way if he is happy with.

Dear Raul, I think you have misunderstood, I never tried to “hit” you!

The way I see it is that, in your “nearly crazy hatred of tubes”, as Lewm has rightly puts it, you lose sight on the bigger picture, can’t see the forest for the trees, so to speak.

You have paid much attention to the electronics (maybe that is the subject you are good at), but fail to see the much bigger distortion generator of your system, your room and the airborne feedback (in the case of the turntable system).

You have always boasted about the distortion figures of your phonolinepreamp, but you have avoided questions regarding the distortion level at your listening seat (i.e., measuring of audio signal at your listening seat, as compared to output of the phono / CD). Distortion level at the LISTENING SEAT, isn't that the whole point about a low distortion SYSTEM?

I think you would be quite surprised, even horrified, if you actual see the result of such measurement.

Distortion of the electronic is only a very small part of the total distortion of the system. While, in the name of high fidelity, we certainly want to minimize the distortion of the electronics, we also can't neglect the bigger issues out there.

Your denial on the obvious shortcomings of your room / system, and your confident (maybe over confident) of your ears being better trained than most of others, just prevent you from making further improvements!

I want to make it very clear here, I don't claim to have a superior knowledge / system / ears than you (or anyone else for that matter), but I tried to keep an open mind and not limit myself to only one design type. Maybe it is a surprise to you, but I actually owned SS electronics (Pass Xono, Vendetta etc.) and they are part of my system. So, I am not anti-SS by any means.

BTW, I don't get frustrated on what you do with your system, it is your system after all, and you are the one listening to it day-in, day-out. As long as you are happy with it, everything is fine with me.