Solving the THIEL CS 5i's - vs- CS 7.2 Debate


Well I have been a huge THIEL fan for years. I have owned the CS 7.2's for 4 plus years and the CS 5i's for 3 years. In that time I have been begging for the correct room / source / amplification setup to host an ultimate drag out and shoot out. The stars aligned post new year and I had the extra help to move these monsters around and begin the process to initiate a formal showdown of these extraordinary components and literal masterpieces of speaker construction and design.

To address the weary on what I leveraged to orchestrate this debate, the amplification stage was handled by twin KRELL FPB 650m's, piped through the KRELL KCT, AudioQuest interconnects and woeful Denon CD section. All other things being equal the downside on the CD and speaker cabling should balance the field between the two.

I ran a battery of CD,s and moved the speakers forward and backward, toe in and straight up and I now have what is my ultimate conclusion. At this point I am looking for supporting evidence from the community or welcome an additional party to sit and listen to the setup.

At some point in this thread I can discuss the nuances between the two speakers, however, I will come out and say that the CS 7.2's are pure illustrated magic and profoundly demonstrated a by far greater representation of what I would expect from the original source.

At the end of the day they were the better sounding speakers to my ears in that room, given this setup.

Were the CS 5i's able to bring tears to my eyes? = yes.

Did the CS 7.2's do a better job of handling the soundstage? = yes

I would love to hear feedback if folks have any regarding a direct speaker to speaker comparison.

I will also state that by themselves the CS 5i's sound brilliant.

Thank you,
David
davidstingray
Well, my life and fortune were much different when I posted this original thread years ago, but I still have the CS 5i's and the CS 7.2's.  I did finally manage to take input from the thread not too long after the original post and reconfigured the 5i's to try and dial them into the room. 

I remember struggling for a good bit to dial the massive 5i's into position and get them to break out of their shell.  The good news, I was successful.  

Dialing the 7.2's seemed much easier to me, I am not sure if it was luck or the fact that they are more forgiving.   The 5i's on the other hand required numerous moves, but at the end of the day they were a true competitive force for the 7.2's. The 5i's required greater separation from each other, a slight move forward (1 foot or so) and much less distance from the walls.  Toe in was very similar to the 7.2's.

Why?  I have absolutely no idea, but they definitely came into their own and dramatically improved their characteristics when moved about.  I was able to improve upon the sound stage and get the vocals to hang similar to the 7.2's.  The instrumentation detail was extraordinary as well.  I could hear individual instrument details by channel through the 5i's that I was not picking up in the 7.2's.  The lower end was obviously improved, but that could account for some of the additional channel detail.  My best attempt to describe it would be having a weaker center stage with abundant channel detail at the edge.  The important thing to note here, is that the channel detail was at the edge, not necessarily just off of center.  Tough to imagine I am guessing, but you would know what I mean if you were there.

Ok, the rub.  I still prefer the THIEL CS 7.2's over the CS 5i's.  

Why?  I found the 5i's almost over stimulating.  The 7.2's are so easy to listen to and I can listen to them for 2 or even 3 albums without any fatigue.  
Now for the interesting part.  I re-positioned the 7.2's back in place, and placed the 5i's on the outside of each, however, slightly back and slightly more toe-in'd than the 7.2's.  Powering only the 7.2's, I was amazed to hear that the 7.2's NEVER SOUNDED BETTER.  Having the 5'is only slightly behind and on the outside of the 7.2's made the room come alive even more.  I know this sounds ridiculous, but the 7.2's never sounded better.  

That made me think.  Why don't I power both???  The Krell FPB 650M could easily handle powering both speakers and allows for bi-amping.  

The result:
To say the sounds was extraordinary would be an understatement.

If I hadn't heard a couple of Wilson Audio setups, I would say that this was my favorite setup to date and it was in my room.   I know, a completely biased opinion, but I managed to make the room even better by my personal standards.  The Krells had zero issues powering both speakers and I was able maintain the center stage from the 7.2's, while picking up the channel detail from the 5i's.  

At the end of the day, as some one posted above, it is really about what sounds best to your ears.  I have the 5i's currently in a dedicated home theater room and I often listen to live music and love it.  I probably spend more time listening to the 5i's than I do the 7.2's, however, when it comes to critical listening, I want to sit back and enjoy the affects of the 7.2's.  The staging is dramatic and magical in my opinion and I personally find that it satisfies my desire to be amazed by a performance.  

The CS 5i's aren't even behind, they are just suited for different music and a different experience in my opinion.  

The one thing that I also want to say is that my room is acoustically treated.  I have sound panels liberally placed about the room, minus the ceiling.  Behind the speakers, left, right, and even behind the seated position.   If you want to improve your room, work on the room.  I can't say enough about what treatments and environment will do for the sound.  If I had to remove the treatments from my isolated room, I'd sell the speakers and equipment and want to pick up a different hobby.  

Let me know what you think.  I welcome feedback!!! 

David,
Thanks for the info. What final spacing (tweeter to tweeter) did you end up with for each pair of speakers? Also what distance from the center of the plane that runs between your left and right speaker drivers to your seating position did you end up with for each pair of speakers?
Good to read- David,

like cadence151, I am curious about the measurements as well.
THIEL CS 7.2's are 112 inches apart, center to tweeter.

Distance from center to seat is 144 if I am reading this correctly.


Very nice to read this thread. I now own 7.2 and 2_2 and enjoy 7.2 very much. But i am still very curious about how 3.7 compares with 7.2. Any one has an idea?
Also, I am still looking for ml 20.6 to pair with cs 7.2. However, only 20.5 is available so far. Would it be much different?