2. amps-preamps
  3. 129105-330

ARC Ref 5se inferior to LS28?

This is what a big dealer told me the other day. Dealer speak or right on the money? Would very much like to hear opinions of the many knowledgeable ARC users on Audiogon. Thanks

4425
randy-11
1,913 posts
 
I agree with minorl.   Besides Vovlo, Magneplanar (ARCs friends, neighbors, and sometimes collaborators) are very "slow" to upgrade or bring out new models.  Maggie also blind tests every modification and does not introduce anything until it passes those tests with some significant improvement.

I don't know if ARC uses blind testing or not, but they do a listening test on each individual unit before it leaves the factory.

I'd also modify the post above to read: "analog parts don't usually get cheaper over time"
rwwear
2,867 posts
 
Of the SP-2C, J. Gordon Holt wrote in Summer 1971 (Vol.3 No.1), Unquestionably the finest-sounding preamplifier we have tested to date, this [high-priced ($550) and all-tubed preamp] is the next best thing to the ideal "straight wire with gain." Sound is extremely lucid and detailed, but without a trace of the hardness or graininess that characterizes most other preamps. Control and switching facilities less versatile than on some competitively priced preamps. Phono equalization accurate to within 0.5dB.
Read more at http://www.stereophile.com/content/audio-research-sp-3-preamplifier#yI3g2fujy4UfJbk4.99

If you were to compare the early model to the current version, by ARCs logic, it would sound terrible. But that is not the case according to more recent reviews.
 http://www.tonepublications.com/old-school/audio-research-sp-3-preamplifier/
bdp24's avatar
bdp24
9,803 posts
 

That issue of Stereophile was my initiation into audiophiledom, and the ARC SP-3 my first serious pre-amp. My dearly departed pal Brooks Berdan sold ARC when he was at GNP in Pasadena, but by the time he opened his own shop (Brooks Berdan Ltd.) in nearby Monrovia, ARC designs had become hybrids, rather than purely tube. Brooks kept his tubed SP-10, finding the hybrid SP-11 somewhat "dry and white", as he put it. At that time I had an SP-6b that I bought from Steve McCormick, which I ended up selling to Brooks. Both the SP3 and SP-6, as well as the SP-10, are the classic ARC purely tube pre-amps.

Brooks became a dealer for Jadis, VTL, and Music Reference, all still making pure-tube electronics. He took in a lot of ARC from people who liked the pure tube sound of those companies products more than the hybrid sound of ARC. But Bill Johnson and Rich Larsen kept working at making their hybrid circuits sound more tubey and less solid state, and eventually got rid of the ss nasties that Brooks and some others (Harry Pearson at TAS) found objectionable. That was years ago, and ARC is still at the top of the heap. They are unquestionably the most influential high-end company of them all, but they did put out the occasional turkey! I agree with the comments above, that the way to buy ARC is used. But if you buy a power amp, you had better have a dealer who does repair work nearby. If you have an output tube go bad, you're gonna need him!

kalali's avatar
kalali
1,977 posts
 
I honestly think a large percentage of the well to do audiophiles with brand loyalty do not "upgrade" their gear in search of better sound. Aside from pure curiosity, they upgrade because they want the latest models on their racks. The only semilogical explanation I got from a friend of mine who falls into this group, also an avid ARC fan, was he keeps his gear only while they are under warranty so he doesn't have to pay for any repairs. He literally trades them in for the new model. I have another friend who uses the same logic with cars. He turns them over at the end of the lease and gets the same exact model brand new. Amplifiers have hardly changed and there're no functional differences among the models over the past forty years. With a very few minor exceptions, almost all the line stage preamp also do the same thing. Some people just love that new tube smell...
analogluvr
859 posts
 
Exactly kulali. We are talking tube electronics for gods sake!  For me I would be less inclined to buy a brand that continually offers new models as it shows they are more focused on the bottom line than on giving their customers good value. 
More to discover