ARC Ref 5se inferior to LS28?


This is what a big dealer told me the other day. Dealer speak or right on the money? Would very much like to hear opinions of the many knowledgeable ARC users on Audiogon. Thanks

4425

This is actually funny.  Its like there is a dark back room with old gray haired  men conspiring to upgrade equipment one component at a time over the years to capitalize on the market.  Heck, that may actually have some truth to it. 

So, how does one purchase cars?  If you know the manufacturer is going to completely change the car, body style in the next model year, do you buy the current version? or wait until the new one comes out?

This is persona decision time.  How much of a discount will I get on the current model vs the new one?  I'm not big on cars depreciating immediately after I drive off the dealer's lot.  That sucks.

For, me, I could probably afford to buy new equipment, but I really don't like the ridiculously high audio equipment prices. So, I try to buy demo equipment or used.  That means I'm not getting the absolutely very new equipment anyway, or as I said, maybe I will, but it will be a discounted demonstration unit.

I couldn't care less if the company comes out with a newer piece.  As long as I can get my piece repaired by the company and as long as this piece sounds good enough for me to buy it in the first place.

As the level many of us are at, it takes a lot to make us think about upgrading. 

For example.  I purchased a REF 3 pre-amp years ago.  When the REF 5 came out, I listened to it and it was slightly better than the REF 3, but not better enough to justify (funny word) upgrading.  However, the REF 5SE was a much better sounding pre-amp, and I could see myself upgrading to a  REF 5SE.  Now the REF 6 is out and there is no way, I'm spending that amount on it.  I'll get a REF 5SE instead if the opportunity comes up.

When ones says that they are "there" with their system, noticeable improvements are stupidly expensive are typically not cost effective we are in the diminishing returns area.

Pass Labs comes out with new and improved all the time.  Any yes, they do very good work.

Bottom line, Audio Research equipment holds a pretty good resale value, so, not much harm there,. and 2) most importantly, no one is forcing anyone to buy anything. 

Come on everyone, enjoy the ride and the music

I agree with some of what @minorl says, especially when he talks about ARC holding it's resale value, and no one being forced to buy them.

I do not think that Pass Labs is in the same turnover ballpark though.
Nelson Pass' .8 series is basically his third version this century.

Pass Labs first X and XA series came out when ARC Ref 2 mk II was ARC's top of the line preamp. Since then, Pass Labs has had two more revisions, the .5 and the .8 series, while ARC has had 4 (Ref 3/5/5SE/6), not including the Anniversary or Ref 10 preamps.

A new design every 6-8 years, as Pass Labs has been doing, is a bit less turnover than a new model every 2-4 years as has been the ARC model.
I agree with jmcgrogan2.

However, I will say that that the Anniversary and REF 10 are in a completely different world, cost wise and sound wise, than the REF3/5 and 5SE.

I would love to hear a REF 6 and REF 10 side by side.  That would be interesting.

I've heard a REF 10.  it was magical.  I thought it better than the Anniversary pre-amp.

But we are talking about two pre-amps that aren't in the same league as the others. 

They are almost cost no object devices.

enjoy

For the consumer able to buy a REF 6 or 10 new, value may not be a concern! For the buyer of a cost-no-object, advancing-the-State-Of-The-Art product, future developments will be dealt with when they appear, the possibility of a new, even-higher level product that makes obsolete their current model to be expected at that elevation. By obsolete, I don’t mean no longer as good sounding as it had been, but rather that no further improvements to it will be offered, all further R & D being put into the new model that replaces it. More like a "dead" product than an obsolete one. As testpilot said, long-term ARC consumers know this to be ARC’s modus operandi. I wonder how many REF pre-amps ARC sells in a model run?