Amps/Preamps for Rockport Aviors


Hi everyone, I just ordered new Rockport Avior speakers a couple of weeks ago and they are coming next week.  My current system is: ARC ref 75SE amp; ARC LS 17se pre amp; simaudio 280d dac and network streamer; Feikert turntable, ortofon cardenza bronze cartridge, and a boulder 1008 phone stage. 

I am thinking about upgrading my amp and preamp for the Aviors.  I was looking at the ARC ref 250SE as well as a used Boulder 2060.  For the preamp, not sure, maybe an ARC REF 6 or a used boulder.  Someone also suggested I look at a simaudio evolution 860 or 870.   My one concern with the ARC ref 250SE is whether those amps will pair well with the Rockports or if im better off getting a solid state.  I am not married to either tube or solid state (I had krell a long time ago before the 75SE and bought the 75SE becuase i thought it paired well with my Thiel 3.7's). 

I am brand new to the Avior speakers and looking to get more out of them than my 75se, and would greatly appreciate anyone's views. 

thank you in advance.  Larry
Ag insider logo xs@2xgasherbaum
Stereo Exchange never sold T+A, T+A is known for offering a sound that is warm if you read the review in the Absolute Sound they site the HV's musicality and tube like qualities as well as its transparency and midrange accuracy. 

Again, Gru, we are trying to get people to pay attention to a brand which compares to crazy expensive stuff like CH precison, and D'Agastino, and Solution, yet costs considerably less in fact that is what Allan Taffel said in his review he titled the review "Swiss sound for less."

I have never have I seen in all my 40 years of reading TAS and Stereophile seen a review, which has compared a $20k amp to $120k worth of some of the most respected Swiss gear around and come to that conclusion!  Have you?  Their are many raves on many great pieces of gear, however, it is the price difference in how much their costs vs the best of the best gear, which makes the T+A gear worth crowing about!

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/ta-pa-3000-hv-and-mp-3000-hv/


I didn't make the review, Allan Taffel did, he said in the review that the $19k T+A integrated competes with $120k worth of CH gear!  The T+A gear is the real deal and is based on a company with a reputation for building incredible gear. The HV gear is relatively new came out in 2014 but due to the poor press showing of their first distributor nobody heard of the gear in the US. 
 
"How close is the sound? Let me start with the PA3000 HV. At $19,000, this 300-watt integrated amp costs about 15 percent of my reference CH Precision C1/2xA1 combo. Yet when I switch between them the most striking thing I hear is their utter similarity.  "

" The biggest difference between the T+A and the CH Precision is at the very top end, where the reference is more refined, though not any more extended. Bear in mind that even this difference, though audible as a touch of roughness, still falls into the subtle category. As evidence, consider that while trying my darndest to ferret out differences like this one, I frequently put down my pen and succumbed to the music. I listened to entire sides of even the most familiar albums. That’s an indication of how little these scant distinctions matter, and how miraculously close the PA3000’s sound and capacity to captivate come to the higher-buck Swiss Sound stalwarts "

They are coming on strong with raves on their products DAC 8 $4k dac compared to $20k dacs, and technologies and usually you will find that their gear competes with much, much, more expensive gear. 

If this man wants to hear solid state gear which really sounds like the best in tubes he should hear the T+A gear, if he is on our coast he should stop in if not he can hear the gear at other dealers.

I used to love tubes and still enjoy them, the T+A gear just sounds like the best of both worlds and it is incredible made and reasonably priced. 

So yes you caught me, again, trying to champion a brand and a product that many people don't know about, but should. 

Lets see how many products we champion that become critical darlings in the press, and generally our products are less expensive for their outstanding performance. 
Hello everyone,

I hope you all had a good weekend and thank you all for your suggestions regarding the various components, including the Ayre, Pass Labs, VTL, D'Agostino, ARC and calling Rockport.  I do have a call into Andy Payor at Rockport to see what his thoughts are.  I wanted to audition some stuff from the dealer i bought the Rockports from, but that dealer doesn't have anything in his store other than the ARC REF 75 SE and the Boulder 2160 -- he just doesn't carry a lot of equipment in the store to compare. 

I do have some follow up questions.  A couple of you mentioned the VTL amplifiers (Baby Bear and Knghifi), which are also tube amps like the ARC.  Is there a reason you think the VTL amps would drive or match the Rockports better than an upgraded ARC, like the REF 250 SE monoblocks? 

Knghifi, you mentioned that philb7777 drives his Cygnus's (which are one up from the Aviors and a great sounding speaker) with the ARC 250 and REF 5SE -- do you know whether he is in love with the sound of his equipment? 

I am going to look into the other suggestions as well  (luckily Ayre is a local company here in Colorado where I live) with a dealer right around the corner.  There is a Pass Labs dealer not to far from here that says he will ship a pair of Pass Labs XA 160.8 mono blocks for me to try and if I don't like them I just pay for the shipping back, and if I do like them I pay for them.  It might be worth the cost of shipping to see how they sound.

Everyone, thank you again for the great suggestions and also taking the time to provide me guidance.  I will let you know what, if any, of these amps I can test with the Rockports before buying. 

Thank you, Larry
 
Hello Larry,

I don't know if any of what I said about the T+A gear will resonate with you, but if any of this intrigues you and if you have any interest in hearing the T+A gear, their importer Rutherford Audio is also in Colorado, and they might be able to provide a demo for you and who knows maybe you can get a three way demo between all  three of these stellar brands.

The T+A sound is warm, very airy, big bass and dynamics, with remarkable clarity and speed, it is similar to the Pass sound which is also a bit warm, I think the T+A has a bit more air to the sound and sounds even more powerful and a bit faster and cleaner, as you are getting 300 watts into 8 ohm and 500 watts into 4, where the Pass Labs tend for most models to be around 100-200 watts. 

The Ayre gear is very clean but it is also a bit on the lean side in the midrange which may or may not suit your tastes. It would also depend on the cabling, and digital, it is very good gear,very well designed and built.

I think you will find the T+A gear will outperform the Pass and Ayre gear as the sound of the T+A gear sounds kind of like what if you merged the best qualities of both of these brands,  and the T+A gear will cost less for their highly rated integrated amplifier and similarly priced or a bit less then the other brands, for their high end separate amp and preamp.

Musicfix bought a T+A R 2500 integrated not from us by the way,as he is not on our coast, and compared it to the Pass integrated he was also auditioning, and he greatly preferred the T+A which he subsequently purchased. 

I will repeat we are not getting anything out of this, I was just reading the post and thought hey at least he is in Colorado, and maybe the importer can get him a demo.





Audiotroll:
T & A gear is very good stuff. I can assure you that Stereo Exchange carried it, albeit for a brief time, and I found it to be exactly as stated. I would not ascribe a great amount of warmth to it as you do.  I believe Alan Taffel compared it to what is referred to as the "Swiss Sound" like Goldman, Spectral and CH Precision. These are not brands known for a tube-like warmth--nor are they harsh or thin. They are fast and have ultra high bandwidth. Although these amps all have great specs, they are not my personal cup of tea in the amplification department where I strongly prefer tubes and solid state brands like D'Agostino and some Pass as well as some less heralded brands like Wells Audio which do have a degree of warmth and tube liquidity missing in the Swiss group. But that's just my opinion.
Have i read many reviews where the reviewer says that a component can hold its own with gear costing many times its price?---yes many many times. Nevertheless, I will agree it was an excellent review and that T & A makes excellent gear.
My point is not that the OP should not consider T&A for Rockport---it's that you should stop selling your wares here so unashamedly and at every opportunity. You spout certainties that, from a dealer---sounds like a sales job regardless of whether you personally make the sale.
Your opinion that T&A contains the best attributes of Ayre and Pass is just not true IMHO and I can imagine many who would prefer Ayre (especially the new amps) or any number of Pass Labs amps over the T&A gear. Of course, one would not be wrong in preferring the T&A gear over both of those brands as you suggest.
 Finally, I note that some other Goners on other threads are joining in the chorus which again request that you stop selling here. 

If Stereo Exchange carried them it was a very  long time ago and not in recent history. The HV series of electronics is new as of 2014 and only started getting some notice in 2015 in Europe and no one in New York carried them, Innovative had the speakers and some of their older E series electronics years ago, so I think you are mixing up your dealers!

The HV stands for High Voltage and is the technique which T+A uses to mimic tube sound with solid state gear the HV series is their new flagship product and they are way better then the older gear which was good but not in this level.

No their sound is not tube like in that it is rolled off, or has an overall emphasis on a midrange, it is a smooth transparent sound and unlike Solution which pushes uber resolution over warmth. 

As per your opinion, what do you know you opinion is based on what exactly? Dave works full time at his shop and has 27 years experience. I am there on weekends and during testing sessions I go to CES and Cedia, I go to private listening sessions after hours in shows and have 40 years of professional experience, as well as designing speakers for years.

Again, you do no one justice by your relentless hounding. If you weren't such a pain we would invite you in to hear the T+A gear for yourself.

The fact that a $19k integrated stands up to $120k worth of the best Swiss gear should make you want to find out for yourself if you agree.

The fact that T+A gear competes with $120k CH Precision, $100k+ Solution and $60k D'agastino amps yet costs considerably less should be the reason why people should be talking about the brand.

By the way we tested the T+A against a $120k pair of legendary Krell Class A amplifiers, and the T+A killed that amp!

Gee what If I am right again, just like I was with the Personas, and we can point this gentleman to a line of electronics that he might really love and in this case we wouldn't be getting a thing out of it!

As per T+A vs Pass again ask Musifx who bought a $11k T+A integrated after comparing it directly to a comparably priced Pass labs product.