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Most Important, Unloved Cable...

Ethernet. I used to say the power cord was the most unloved, but important cable. Now, I update that assessment to the Ethernet cable. Review work forthcoming. 

I can't wait to invite my newer friend who is an engineer who was involved with the construction of Fermilab, the National Accelerator Lab, to hear this! Previously he was an overt mocker; no longer. He decided to try comparing cables and had his mind changed. That's not uncommon, as many of you former skeptics know. :)

I had my biggest doubts about the Ethernet cable. But, I was wrong - SO wrong! I'm so happy I made the decision years ago that I would try things rather than simply flip a coin mentally and decide without experience. It has made all the difference in quality of systems and my enjoyment of them. Reminder; I settled the matter of efficacy of cables years before becoming a reviewer and with my own money, so my enthusiasm for them does not spring from reviewing. Reviewing has allowed me to more fully explore their potential.  

I find fascinating the cognitive dissonance that exists between the skeptical mind in regard to cables and the real world results which can be obtained with them. I'm still shaking my head at this result... profoundly unexpected results way beyond expectation. Anyone who would need an ABX for this should exit the hobby and take up gun shooting, because your hearing would be for crap.  
douglas_schroeder
jinjuku's avatar
jinjuku
226 posts
 
It would also depend on how the content of the signal sent into the cable by the source component changes when the cable is disconnected, as a result of that component having nothing to talk to at the other end.

Why would it matter what the source is sending if you have disconnected it at the client? These are buffered (FIFO) systems and the audio is still playing.

The only change in 'content' is the 100% lack thereof. 

Once again: What sonically changed about the audio when the cable was disconnected. What does the cable, what does mixed signal systems wrt to analog and digital ground plane mixing, have to do with the DAC playing out of buffer (that isn't going to get refilled unless the cable is plugged back in)?

A good litmus test for these multi-thousand dollar pieces of audio gear is to evaluate it blinded and start playback and see if you can hear when a friend, without cueing you in on it, has disconnected the cable. If I / you hear a clear difference I would take a pass on it personally. 
almarg's avatar
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almarg
9,670 posts
 
So if really expensive equipment is actually susceptible to this then the EE’s that are designing it don’t know what they are actually doing. They may want to re-read Ott.
It wouldn’t surprise me if many audio designers have not read Ott. Or studied the aptly named book "High-Speed Digital Design: A Handbook of Black Magic." (My background, btw, is in defense electronics, and I have taken Mr. Johnson’s related course).
Why would it matter what the source is sending if you have disconnected it at the client? These are buffered (FIFO) systems and the audio is still playing.
Because as I indicated in my 3-27-2017 post possible pathways by which RFI may find its way from the cable to circuit points that are downstream of the ethernet interface include radiation into power wiring, or into other cables, or directly into various circuit points within the DAC or other components. And the degree to which that may occur may be affected by the bandwidth, shielding, and other characteristics of the cable being used. Also, perhaps a difference would occur because noise generated by the ethernet interface circuitry at the receiving end (i.e., in the DAC) may change as a result of having nothing connected to it.

As far as I can recall, everything that has been said in this thread by those who deny that the reported sonic differences are real has focused on the robustness and accuracy of ethernet communications. While ignoring or discounting what I would consider, based on my experience, to be the very real possibility of interactions between signals and circuits that are ostensibly unrelated. Designs should not be assumed to behave in a manner that is theoretically ideal, IMO, and signals should not be assumed to only follow their intended pathways.

Regards,
-- Al

jinjuku's avatar
jinjuku
226 posts
 
Because as I indicated in my 3-27-2017 post possible pathways by which RFI may find its way from the cable to circuit points that are downstream of the ethernet interface include radiation into power wiring, or into other cables, or directly into various circuit points within the DAC or other components. And the degree to which that may occur may be affected by the bandwidth, shielding, and other characteristics of the cable being used. And perhaps also because noise generated by the ethernet interface circuitry at the receiving end may change as a result of having nothing connected to it.  

Then I would suggest as T.I. does in "Reducing Radiated Emissions in 10/100 Ethernet LAN Applications" one uses a balanced power supply for the benefits of CMNR. 

Bottom line is that selecting well engineered componentry is what is needed for fidelity. 

I'm already able to produce ADC'd tracks, that given the natural losses of generational copy, are extremely close to the source PCM when compared. So that means, by fact, my $250 is indeed very transparent and high resolution, and that an $18 NIC, a $69 mainboard, $24 stick of 4GB DDR3, $55 240GB SSD, $25 PICO PSU, $60 LPS is impervious to changes in cable vs some that claim their $8000 device is capable of 'resolving' when it's really a failure for it to protect the output from something as simple as a change in one short run of cable vs another. 


almarg's avatar
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almarg
9,670 posts
 
I don't doubt or question the comments in your post just above, Jinjuku. I have said in many previous threads here that the musical resolution of a component or system, and its sensitivity to and ability to resolve hardware differences, are two different things.  And in a reasonably high quality system the correlation between the two, while certainly greater than zero, is also a good deal looser than many audiophiles seem to believe.

Regards,
-- Al
 
jinjuku's avatar
jinjuku
226 posts
 
As far as I can recall, everything that has been said in this thread by those who deny that the reported sonic differences are real has focused on the robustness and accuracy of ethernet communications. While ignoring or discounting what I would consider, based on my experience, to be the very real possibility of interactions between signals and circuits that are ostensibly unrelated. Designs should not be assumed to behave in a manner that is theoretically ideal, IMO, and signals should not be assumed to only follow their intended pathways.

Agreed, but that is going to happen regardless of Audioquest or WireWorld or Nordost.

Bottom line is there are only so many ways to engineer an Ethernet Cable and the standards body steers these considerations. 

When a $340 AudioQuest Vodka was measured it was actually marginal for 6A operation for NeXT. Where as my $12 6A cable was 200% better in this regard. 

I'm able to show up and terminate UTP CAT5 or STP CAT6 to the same as is whatever they are using. I understand the theory and not in disagreement. All the same I stand by what I have said I would do and that is show up with ~40-50 feet of cabling, terminate on the spot and with a L3MS in LAG let the claimant A/B sighted for 1-3 hours and then we can move through the rounds of testing. 

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