Most Important, Unloved Cable...


Ethernet. I used to say the power cord was the most unloved, but important cable. Now, I update that assessment to the Ethernet cable. Review work forthcoming. 

I can't wait to invite my newer friend who is an engineer who was involved with the construction of Fermilab, the National Accelerator Lab, to hear this! Previously he was an overt mocker; no longer. He decided to try comparing cables and had his mind changed. That's not uncommon, as many of you former skeptics know. :)

I had my biggest doubts about the Ethernet cable. But, I was wrong - SO wrong! I'm so happy I made the decision years ago that I would try things rather than simply flip a coin mentally and decide without experience. It has made all the difference in quality of systems and my enjoyment of them. Reminder; I settled the matter of efficacy of cables years before becoming a reviewer and with my own money, so my enthusiasm for them does not spring from reviewing. Reviewing has allowed me to more fully explore their potential.  

I find fascinating the cognitive dissonance that exists between the skeptical mind in regard to cables and the real world results which can be obtained with them. I'm still shaking my head at this result... profoundly unexpected results way beyond expectation. Anyone who would need an ABX for this should exit the hobby and take up gun shooting, because your hearing would be for crap.  
douglas_schroeder
Hi Shadorne,


As you know I’ve agreed with many of your posts in the past, that are often very informative, and I always view them with respect even when I disagree. In this case we’ll have to agree to disagree.

When highly experienced audiophiles such as DGarretson, Grannyring, and Bryoncunningham, all of whom have excellent systems as well as exceptionally high credibility in my book, report that changing from one inexpensive ethernet cable to another inexpensive ethernet cable results in significant sonic improvement, IMO a suggestion that they should get rid of one (and perhaps both) of the components that the cable is connecting amounts to an extreme position. And even more so given that there would seem to be no particular basis for confidence that whatever replacement is chosen would be any better in that respect, and might be worse in that or any number of other respects.

Also, regarding ...

... we should be completely justified to expect that good audio gear should be immune from small changes in Ethernet wiring.

... from a design standpoint I’m not sure that what you are saying we should be able to expect is as easily accomplished as you are envisioning. For example, in a post in this thread dated 3-28-2017 I suggested the following experiment to some of the others:

Tune a portable battery powered AM radio to an unused frequency, with the volume control set at a position that you would normally use. Bring it close to an unshielded ethernet cable on your LAN, while the cable is conducting traffic. You may be surprised at what you hear.

When I do that with the unshielded Cat5e cable I have on the LAN in my house, while the cable is **not** conducting any large amount of traffic, I hear increases in static from the radio when it is as far as 2 feet from the cable. Keep in mind that an AM radio is designed to just be sensitive to a narrow (~10 kHz) range of frequencies in the lower part of the RF region (nowhere close to frequencies corresponding to the bit rate of ethernet traffic, much less to the frequency components that constitute the risetimes and falltimes of the signals), and to have a sensitivity measured in microvolts. And for audio we’re dealing with microvolts as well, but without the benefit of the radio’s narrow band filtering. For digital audio if 2 volts corresponds to full scale the least significant bit of a 16 bit word corresponds to about 30 microvolts. And the least significant bit of a 24 bit word corresponds to about 0.1 microvolts! And perhaps more significantly there are jitter effects that will arise as a result of noise whenever D/A conversion is performed, of course. And this experiment just involves radiation of RFI through the air. Not through what would seem likely to potentially be much more significant unintended pathways for digital noise, such as grounds, other wiring, and parasitic capacitances within the components.

Regards,
-- Al

That doesn't mean that your audio reproduction gear is going to be susceptible to it like an AM Antenna is. The Antenna is doing what it's designed to do. 

It’s an interesting experiment. It’s also why when I do structured, low voltage cabling, I take all external factors into account when choosing what and how I’m going to run.

But if there are no cofounders then there is nothing to mitigate. That is going to be the norm for most installations and it’s an easy norm to hit.

Shield is part of the 6A spec. Again the IEEE standards body defines the #’s to hit. This in turn dictates cable construction. There are only so many ways to do this. If a string and two cans could hit the spec then that would work also.

I prefer wireless. Try to pick up 2.4GHz or 5GHz with AM sometime. 
And perhaps more significantly there are jitter effects that will arise as a result of noise whenever D/A conversion is performed, of course.
Is this jitter at the DAC or else where?

If at the DAC then it's nothing to do with the Ethernet cable since there is no audio clocking on Ethernet.

If it's on the Ethernet cable then it's of no issue since FIFO will take care of all that and make it 100% a non-issue. 



Jinjuku, I'm referring to jitter at the point of D/A conversion, within the DAC component. If the explanation for the reported differences that I stated in my post dated 3-27-2017 is correct (and both I and Shadorne have stated that we cannot conceive of any other possible explanation, assuming the reported sonic perceptions are correct), it **does** have to do with the ethernet cable, **even though** the signals being conducted by that cable ostensibly have no relation to the timing of D/A conversion.

Careful reading of my 3-27-2017 post should make what I am saying clear.

Regards,
-- Al
@almarg 

Of course AM radio is affected by unshielded Ethernet wires. This quite normal observation does not mean that in corollary the Ethernet signal has all kinds of digital static from the radio. Digital signals are extremely robust and there are error detection methodolgies to reject and retransmit packets of data in the event of interruption or data Tx collision from multiple devices (to the point of a hot swap of cable).

Your assertion proves nothing except you are gulible to the appeal of authority of your so called "experts". Your main argument is based on the idea that your "highly experienced" audiophiles are infallible even in the face of ludicrous claims:-

They claim that the sound output of great SOTA audio equipment SHOULD and CAN be audibly affected by changing Ethernet cables. It should NOT.

IMHO This is poorly designed or faulty equipment and there is no way around this because "high fidelity" is supposed to be as faithful as possible to the source audio and NOT extraneous factors. I contend that an audiophile should NOT use or purchase this type of equipment but rather find equipment that works properly - this is hardly an extreme position!