Placement tips for Synergistic Research HTFs

Addendum to my previous post

for those vibration isolation systems that do not absorb induced vibrations the obvious and simple solution is damping and other methods of dissipating or evacuating vibration. No one, certainly not your humble scribe, even suggested that induced vibrations from whatever source should remain trapped in the system. Heaven forbid! I have always said that in addition to competent vibration isolation there should be effective damping as well. Either constrained layer damping - I actually design one, I.e., VibraBlock, or Marigo VTS dots, or Herbies tube dampers and any number of audiophile products, even cork, another product of mine designed with the induced vibration in mind - Quark!

In fact all of my iso stands had dampers built in and included NASA grade ceramic cones, the next hardest thing to diamonds for mounting the component and the stand. That’s since 1997. Hel-loo!

And I’ve always recommended very hard cones for both components on the iso stand AND for the iso stand itself to allow vibrations to exit the system rapidly. Any type of vibration or mechanical energy, whatever you wish to call it.  But to ignore isolation or claim it’s not possible or claim vibrations should be free to roam around the room or that induced vibrations make isolation impossible or ineffective is pretty much poppycock and just plain wrongheaded. The cat is out of the bag and has been for more than 20 years. Which ironically is the length of time the Rip Van Winkle dude was asleep. Wake up and smell the coffee!

So Geoff I will have to say the homeowners association for your condo probably won't permit you to build a LIGO in your play room right.? Even if you could build such a home brew device..

When you turn your hi fi on and play music you generate compression waves and they become  shear waves..after hitting any solid material. So when this does happen all your isolation is gone..Your isolation system even a  LIGO at home.. and not by any well guarded good design or plan becomes a container for all the self generated shear in your sound system and all that motors thru your home. I am certain the Real One and Only LIGO  site does not allow a 140 db arena sound system to be played in their facility. But even if it was 85 to 90db like at home you would generate shear wave interference. All audio components anything with a motor or transformer or a chassis...your speakers all generate and transmit and carry shear energy which cannot be isolated from your room or your sound system. Some audio components require shear waves to function.Yours meaning Geoff's ...isolation system can not determine the polarity of shear that does have a meaningful function of sound reproduction versus the polarity of shear that becomes interfering energy. Your isolation system works to preserve all polarities of shear the good and the bad and that is the result in your audio outcome.

I called Herzan and they said their products only deal with signals that come from below. After I asked more questions I was passed on to a nice lady.  I asked her if their devices could discern shear motions and their polarity she said no, try damping..That sucks away energy you know like isolation materials..

The application of hard materials with specific geometry to room surfaces and some contents provides the music listener with the greatest physical and emotional experience..it is all about shear and its transference. That is what is happening with these small tuning devices, those that contact hard surfaces in the room.

Tom

Theaudiotweak
I called Herzan and they said their products only deal with signals that come from below. After I asked more questions I was passed on to a nice lady. I asked her if their devices could discern shear motions and their polarity she said no, try damping..That sucks away energy you know like isolation materials..

Exactly! "Try damping." That’s what I just got through saying. Furthermore, if the speaker isolation devices are two way devices, preventing seismic vibrations from going up and preventing speaker cabinet vibrations from going down then where’s the beef?

The application of hard materials with specific geometry to room surfaces and some contents provides the music listener with the greatest physical and emotional experience..it is all about shear and its transference. That is what is happening with these small tuning devices, those that contact hard surfaces.

Sorry, Charlie, not really, not with the transducers and resonators we’ve been discussing. You’re way off. Obviously the diagrams for placement of resonators is where the acoustic pressure peak are maximum, not the wall resonances. As Judge Judy says, if it doesn’t make sense it’s not true. Now, that’s not to say there aren’t devices like the Tekna Sonic dampers of yore and Shun Mook Mpingo discs, even my Brilliant Pebbles that can be attached to walls and Windows to dissipate energy that way. And some of transducers and resonators can work on surface vibrations such as on walls and speakers. It's worth mentioning acoustic waves are equivalennt to mechanical waves, anyway, so the point is a little moot, no? 

But the fact remains you must isolate AND damp, not one or the other. But if you have. A choice and wish to get the most bang for your buck choose isolation.

"The only good vibration is a dead vibration." - Shannon Dickson, author of Bad Vibes, 1996, Stereophile magazine

I had tried damping previous the result was much the same except for the reduction in amplitude at all frequencies. A minor change in geometric shape was the fix. A change of the reflective angle between the two surfaces. Tom 

theaudiotweak
1,483 posts
05-04-2017 8:40pm
I had tried damping previous the result was much the same except for the reduction in amplitude at all frequencies. A minor change in geometric shape was the fix. A change of the reflective angle between the two surfaces. Tom

Nobody promised you a rose garden. If it (damping) was that easy everyone could do it. For one thing damping - like isolation - is an art. Take tube dampers, for example. While most of them look they would be a good idea, and many are very clever, they actually hurt the sound. The elastomer rings, the braided copper Swiss ones, the ebony ones. Almost everyone single one of them! Only one type of tube damper actually improves the sound.

Check out Marigo VTS Dots sometime, tiny little constrained layer dampers for all manner of things like capacitors, speaker diaphragms, speaker frames, component chassis, electron tubes, even larger dots for walls and windows. The most common Marigo dot size is 1/8" diameter. Hel-loo!

Damping, like isolation - It’s a science AND an art. Rome wasn’t built in a day. That’s why it’s important to damp the top plate of an isolation device but damp it the right way. There are plenty of wrong ways to damp it or to over damp it. The same thing goes for the way the component is interfaced to the iso stand and how the iso stand is interfaced to the floor or rack. The materials and shapes are critical. Everything is critical. My advice is don’t be an isolation hater. Be an isolation lover.

geoff kait
machina dynamica
the difficult we do quickly, the impossible takes longer