2017 amps - $10K to $15K who is on your short list?

Jim.

An observation is based on experience, and in this case we have tested many different brands of electronics before we selected the T+A gear. 

We were first criticized for not telling people  in our posts that we are dealers, we initially didn't list any affiliation, now we list our affiliation in every post, the same way that  others dealers also do, and other people also commented that it is only appropriate and now that is also an issue.

Most dealers don't buy products that they don't believe in, and we looked at most of the top tier electronics lines,  if you want to see all of our reasons why we passed on D'agastino, Pass Labs, Vitus, Ayre, Sim, Krell and Levinson, please PM us and we can go over it.

The reason we went with T+A in the first place was Allan Taffel's review in the Absolute Sound, where he compared the T+A integrated amplifier an $18k product, to $120k worth of Swiss gear, and Mr. Taffel was having difficulty determining which he was listening to.  In our mind, wow when did you ever see that?

After reading this review we contacted the importer and got to test this gear for ourselves, believe it or not the T+A was even better than the Thrax gear which is unbelievable gear we were also testing on both our Polymer and Paradigm Personas, we tested the top of the line CJ gear and the T+A was better, we compared the T+A to $120k Krell amps and MBL amplifiers and the T+A was better.

The Positive Feedback reviewer compared the T+A integrated PA 3100HV  $21k vs the $45k Dagastino integrated amplifier and the D'ag unit was't better, different but not better.

When you add it all up, for all the reasons we have mentioned the T+A gear is something really, really special.

Sorry if we come across strongly with our love for this gear I would also say there are other posters on these forums with thousands of posts on a certain brand of speakers that post over and over again about how remarkable this product is and nobody makes a peep.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

Last year I was searching for a high power integrated amplifier in this price range to drive my new Focal Sopra 2 speakers. 
Although I love the sound of Audio Research tube equipment among others, I wanted something with less heat and the tube maintenance requirements.
Several excellent amps mentioned in this thread were on my short list. 
When I heard the Simaudio Moon 700i ($14,000) with my Sopra2 speakers I found exactly what I wanted. 
It has the power, sweetness, incredible detail, and the "you are there" sound of live acoustic music.
The build quality of this unit is second to none and rarely seen in audio gear these days. Inside it's built like milspec aerospace avionics, the casework more like fine jewelry than audio gear, but without looking too gawdy like some audio gear these days. 
The sound is just beautiful without imposing either a "tube or SS" flavor on the music. 
It sounds like real music, not a HiFi and just reeks with understated elegance. 
Great warranty and Company to deal with. 
Best investnent I've ever made in Audio Equiment. 
A Classic Amp !!!

Focal + Simm Audio? Hmmm. thnaks very much. very much indeed. I'll look into those SAM 700 articles if possible.


audiotroy
OK. We know now a little more about TA as a candidate for powering a system.
Thanks very much.

where are your own first and generated posts on gear. Reviews? Comparisons? Given AD ‘experience’ at least in the office, if not at home, should yield other’s enormous amounts of articles and accounts on gear which seldom gets press, or ears on it.

Or accounts comparing various gear in various applications. Now that info might be very helpful. To members, and for sales in general if one happened upon a reasonable costing outfit which provided realatively enormous performance.

It might could save a lot of time watching daily what is being posted and commenting in every thread about it. BTW, Folks here do check out the user review sections.

.I’m old, and obviously old school with many things and I see integrity as fundamentally integral for any source I would begin to entertain appreciation of their consul.

For a moment, I would ask you to turn things around. Slip on another person’s shoes and then look at your posts thru their eyes.

Don’t you feel the possibility of an ulterior motive can or may exist in a reader’s mind when a dealership is both providing input, and invitations to audition in the exact same breath and when ever they post??

Simple passion?
When said dealer’s post pervade countless threads? One can’t be hiding behind ‘simple passion’ as their impetus.

Passion of the purest variety must be restrained or it becomes not passion, but obnoxious,.

Its akin to the helpful neighbor who constantly knocks on the door bringing info you may or may not need or want. Or news you already have noticed. Now and then the interruption or inference is fine. When it is constantly or glaringly repetitive, despite its value, it becomes untoward.

As for who sells what…
I’ve been in and around electronics, service, repair, and sales on a private and professional basis for decades. As such, what lines of equipment I or the company I worked for could or would carry regularly depended on more than merely what we felt we liked, or what we felt was the best in its genre. Just ‘cause we dug it, didn’t mean we could bring it in and sell it. Not every time.

There is more going on behind the scenes than merely wishes and wants. Though the dealership is not going to let all that hidden business info become public for obvious reasons.

Manufacturers also have certain requirements for their merchandise to be offered up for sale. . sometimes we could not carry a line of goods due to the goods maker’s requirements for +1, +2, or more pieces inventory, advertising, floor planning, etc.

Some brands are well, let’s say, ‘promiscuous’. They’ll let anyone sell what ever of their line in any fashion, manner, or without further dictates for making available ‘all’ of their products in house or at all. Around here I see regular building contractors adv’ing major known brands of equipment for sale, but they don’t often have any on hand to show or demo…. But they can get it. Some have a piece here or there though often disappointingly setup.

Some brands, regularly do not have any concern for anything and every device arrives F.O.B. or on a 30 day invoice. its yours now. Sell it or use it as a boat anchor. We got paid! Bye!.

Huge grain of salt…
I’ve yet to meet the dealership or store, that can or has cherry picked the whole of high end audio and heard them all, each and every one and is now selling the absolute cream of the supposed, ‘crop’, ‘best of the best’, we are the only place anyone needs to shop and all other stuff out there is not nearly as good’, etc..

Or, a shop that wil take whatever back when or if, the unit does not work well in someone’s system after a couple months of in home listening..

So when I hear a dealership say certain things, I must admit it often feels tainted. Merely disclosing the fact of dealership, does not dispel every suspicion, et. All. Or its implications.

AT did not say exactly what you posted that he said in the article, regarding not being able to decern a difference between the CH or Golden gear and the TA INT amp..

AT said he found them sounds extremely similar. Not identical. He goes on to point out some of those diffs.

Two things arose from closely reviewing that account:
1. The input impedance of the TA INT is printed at perilously low input impedances at the end of the TAS review it says: 20K SE and 5K Bal.

2. throughout the article AT opines the TA Disc/DAC as the source. Having the gear in his words “for a year”, and intimating he owns obviously more expensive, and sundry or similar devices, why was no other sources influences or outcomes contained in the description, beyond the obligatory few words. Likewise with speakr reflections?

The entire TA account could be construed as a rave or apology for kidnapping gear for a year before returning it if one is avidly paranoid, given no erstwhile rationale was handed down as justification for the prolonged endeavor..

Other sources have praised TA gear. Fine enough. Its on the threshold of Ultra high end equipment, along with a growing number of applicants. Some are mentioned in this thread like Gamut, Wells, etc.

“There is no replacement for experience.” Regardless where from it springs. Its true. The issue IMO is coloring it by offering up invites, or auditions with business doing’s inferred. This is in lots of cases, violating territorial restrictions which makers or their distributors demand sellers maintain to keep profit margins up across the sales network.
If ya live in GA. Buy from GA, and not from N. J.. unless it can’t be helped.

And there’s the expense of travel too. I just went to D.C. on a business trip for two days. Watching out for expenses, my tab was right at $2K, or a tad under for two people, round trip, eats, cabs, and tips..

Isn’t N.Y. & N.J. on par with D.C. costs? Will Audio doctor reimburse those traveling expenses? I haven’t seen mention of that aspect yet in any AD posts.

We post about the same model a lot….
There’s always gonna be FOMOCO, Chevy, ‘Cuda or ‘Vette lovers around.
Everyone has a favorite this or that model or brand. Its only human nature. With just limited experiences in audioland, one finds out quickly there is no “one size fits all” device for every instance in any system. So let the ravers rave, and the ranters rant. People are usually perceptive. Or will be soon enough in this hobby where loads of $$$ begin changing hands for routinely variable unknowns. Just best guesses.

The issue is putting part A onto part B. what will happen? What if Parts A & B are put into a different type or size room? Its all far too variable and complicated for anyone to say they know even predominately what will take place in every instance of component mating.

Its always best guessing till the rubber meets the road, and usually then some.

Is Krell out of production?

Just to clarify on Agostino gear. Dan A was the creator of Krell and the designer of their very best creations. He started his own 
company a few years back with his latest designs being under his own name. his products have been acclaimed worldwide. Take a look at his website. Not to be critical at all but if the company is not familiar to you then you need to continue researching before making a decision. Dan D' Agostino is very well known in audio circles. Also be wary of heavy sales pitches on unfamiliar gear. Absolutely no reason to go there.

Jim I can assure you there was no secret agenda in regards to the review and Mr. Taffel keeping the equipment for a year. 

Many reviewers take 2-3 months to write a review and in this case he treated each of the two products as separate reviews so taking six months to a year is a bit long but not insane. 

The how and why Mr. Taffel wrote what he wrote is up to Mr. Tafflel. 

The facts with this line are the facts everyone who reviews the gear goes bonkers over it, so either there is a massive conspiracy with T+A buying reviewers or the stuff is really that good.

Robert Harley stated that the PA 3000 CD is the "best SACD source he has heard."

Mike Lavorgnia in Audio Stream compared the DAC 8 DSD to the DCS Rossini, and the Total Dac which are extremely expensive digital front ends which he did prefer but it was how close the little Dac 8 sounded compared to the big reference digital front ends was interesting. 

Allan Taffel similar $120k worth of CH vs $18k T+A and not hearing much qualitative improvement.

Positive Feedback comparing a $45k Dagastino vs $21k T+A again same thing, double the money not any real improvement 

Musifx a Audigon member bought a T+A 2500r integrated not from us by the way, and was thrilled with the sound and he preferred the T+A over a $12k Pass Labs integrated. 

We never did product reviews on the review side if you think that we should we will be more than happy to write a review, l believe that all these professional reviews are stating the facts about this line.

As per reimbursing someone for visiting our shop from another state if they were to make a purchase we would be more than willing to do so.

As per being on the threshold of ultra high end T+A is not on the threshold it is ultra high end gear, but priced at much more moderate levels, every reviewer seems to say the same thing, that if you compare T+A to the most expensive stuff out there ie the Solutions, Dagastinos, CH Precision, you are going to have a hard time justifying spending double or triple the money so you could kind of say that T+A is a value oriented product. 

If you look at the size of the company they have the advantage of buying in bulk as well as producing all the components including the cases in their own factory, this brings down costs, T+A is a huge company in Germany compared to the rest of the high end audio industry. 

We do recommend that people purchase from their local dealer whenever possible. T+A is just getting reestablished in the US, after a few missteps with distribution, T+A is now going direct to the dealers without a distributor via T+A USA and a new marketing plan.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor nj